Trump presidency

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gd1
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:28 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:I never really did understand that "orange man bad" meme. I mean... yes, rando altright troll, the orange man is bad, which is what the person you're responding to was just saying, probably much more eloquently. Do you have a point? I was going to compare it to the idea of liberals responding to conservative critiques of Obama with "black man bad", but then in that context it sounds like they're implying the conservatives don't like Obama because he's black (which is probably often true), whereas I don't think (at least I hope not) that anyone thinks anyone dislikes Trump just because of his bad spray tan.
One of the ironies of the whole "NPC meme" thing is that using something like the "NPC meme" to dismiss criticism is precisely the sort of mindless regurgitation of shallow talking points that the "NPC meme" claims to satirize.


What worries me about it as a gamer is that you aren't supposed to feel bad about killing npcs because they don't feel anything.

Also,
Skyrim:
Guards
+have no name
+say the same lines over and over

The picture used
+grey skin
+bead eyes with no color
+no expressions

It's saying that these people don't matter, they're all the same, they have no faces/emotions/are 1 dimensional
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:05 am UTC

For some reason, I have no problem murdering everyone on the Dark Brotherhood hitlist, but I can't bring myself to do similar in Fallout 4. I know it's just a game based on a cartoony 1950's version of the future, but it feels too real.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Quercus » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:10 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:I never really did understand that "orange man bad" meme. I mean... yes, rando altright troll, the orange man is bad, which is what the person you're responding to was just saying, probably much more eloquently. Do you have a point? I was going to compare it to the idea of liberals responding to conservative critiques of Obama with "black man bad", but then in that context it sounds like they're implying the conservatives don't like Obama because he's black (which is probably often true), whereas I don't think (at least I hope not) that anyone thinks anyone dislikes Trump just because of his bad spray tan.
One of the ironies of the whole "NPC meme" thing is that using something like the "NPC meme" to dismiss criticism is precisely the sort of mindless regurgitation of shallow talking points that the "NPC meme" claims to satirize.


It seems like a large part of the whole NPC meme thing is people completely misunderstanding small talk. Of course small talk is vacuous and empty - if it contained enough content to generate serious discussion and disagreement it would fail at its purpose of group bonding.

Of course people get uncomfortable if you don't engage with that, you're basically rejecting their attempt at friendliness.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:02 pm UTC

umm....
Another snotty academic not being "fair" to Trump.
(sigh...) It's not ALL about Trump. It is entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X_Hqb7qkW4
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:10 pm UTC

So, Funny.
Laurence Tribe, a Harvard Law professor, made a funny statement.
He was talking about Mich McConnell, the Senator from Kentucky.

Professor Tribe said, "Who's afraid of the Big Bad Turtle.''
(chuckle...) Again the Noble and Endangered Tortoise is maligned by association with Mich McConnell.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:43 am UTC

Apparently, there’s a plan for tanks to be present during a July 4th event at the capitol this year. Really? A display of tanks? It’s not like Independence Day is about celebrating the might of the armed forces. Having a show of military equipment on July 4th strikes me as something oddly un-patriotic: the military isn’t what makes America great. Patriotism is about the people and the spirit of the country, not the military!

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:00 am UTC

It's also disturbingly reminiscent of many of America's historic enemies.

I've probably said it before, in this thread even, but I find it really weird that the hoo-rah America FUCK YEAH flag-waving jingiostic "patriots" of the Republican party are now commonly associated with <sarcasm>such traditional American allies</sarcasm> as Russia, Nazi Germany, and the Confederacy.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:32 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:Apparently, there’s a plan for tanks to be present during a July 4th event at the capitol this year. Really? A display of tanks? It’s not like Independence Day is about celebrating the might of the armed forces. Having a show of military equipment on July 4th strikes me as something oddly un-patriotic: the military isn’t what makes America great. Patriotism is about the people and the spirit of the country, not the military!
ech...What do we expect??
Cheetos' best friends, N. Korea and Russia, have Military Parades.
So...Cheetos want one, too.

There are other scarier things Cheetos is doing.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:38 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:It's also disturbingly reminiscent of many of America's historic enemies.

I've probably said it before, in this thread even, but I find it really weird that the hoo-rah America FUCK YEAH flag-waving jingiostic "patriots" of the Republican party are now commonly associated with <sarcasm>such traditional American allies</sarcasm> as Russia, Nazi Germany, and the Confederacy.

Trump's been asking for military parades since his inauguration. I can't remember if he wants to copy Putin, or if he just has a stiffy for the miltary (that he shirked)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:44 am UTC

He lives for the pageantry.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:11 am UTC

sardia wrote:Trump's been asking for military parades since his inauguration. I can't remember if he wants to copy Putin, or if he just has a stiffy for the miltary (that he shirked)
He has a stiffy for Putin and his side hustle Kim.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:43 pm UTC

Unnecessary images of fascist military parades, Nazi iconography, etc. - ST
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


We all know he'd rather have the parade of under-16 sports stars and cheerleaders, though.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:02 pm UTC

You're all talking about this as if military parades are not a pretty standard thing in lots of different countries. I'm not saying they're good (they're not), but they definitely don't only appear in totalitarian regimes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:12 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:You're all talking about this as if military parades are not a pretty standard thing in lots of different countries. I'm not saying they're good (they're not), but they definitely don't only appear in totalitarian regimes.


Trump first started blathering about a military parade after seeing Macron's in France, in September 2017:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1BT2GX

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:20 pm UTC

ech...Jeeze...
Here is one that is flying below the Radar.
Beware: The Washington Post is often behind a PayWall.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 902faf16ba

The Trumps are forcing people that Know and Do Science Out!
The Trumps will have done damage to this nation both inside and outside that will take years to heal;
If the damage can Ever be healed.

https://www.onlineathens.com/opinion/20 ... statistics
At the very least this bunch of know little, do a lots have set this nation back.

I found This on U-Tube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwWcfyS9Hk

Rachel Maddow tells the Story.
She's a good Story Teller.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ijuin » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:36 am UTC

The Intelligensia are always declared to be enemies of The New Philosophy, and must be forcibly Re-educated for The Greater Good.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:52 am UTC

If only he didn't have the bone spar on one of his feet that prevented him from going to 'Nam, then he could've been part of the Veteran's Day parades all along...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:29 pm UTC

ohhh.....
Some people have come up with a very attractive solution to our Orange Problem.
From Public Twitter Feed of Ron Perlman
Yes, annulment! Impeachment is too good for him. Impeachment is for actual presidents, not those illegitimately installed by a foreign power’s ability to rig a very vulnerable system. An annulment would erase two years of the illegal rule.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:26 am UTC

...except that he was not "illegitimately elected". There's no evidence (of which I am aware) that votes were changed in sufficient quantities to change the outcome. And while he lost the popular vote, that's not how we elect the president any more than simply counting home runs is how the World Series is decided.

The issue is that he did illicit things during the campaign that influenced American voters to freely cast their ballots in his direction.

The system wasn't rigged. Rather, Americans were duped. It's so easy to do, especially when we care so little about our privacy that we allow ourselves to be microtargeted by social media in exchange for likes and follows. It is we the people that need to wake up. If we were thinking and paying attention, this wouldn't have happened.

Jose
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:38 am UTC

Maaaybee....Maaaybee not.
Those L-O-N-G and very, very private meetings with his Dearest Putin leaves many of us quite unsure you are correct.
An eleven year old 'Hacked' the machines used in several States. Orange will not allow anything to be done about that.

You may feel very confident.
As for me,...Nope.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:29 am UTC

addams wrote:Those L-O-N-G and very, very private meetings with his Dearest Putin leaves many of us quite unsure you are correct.
An eleven year old 'Hacked' the machines used in several States. Orange will not allow anything to be done about that.
I'm sure those meetings were more about how to dupe the people than how to actually change votes. And it's also important that the presidential election is a local election, governed by local policies and practices. This makes systematic hacking much more difficult.

For this reason, be wary of proposals to nationalize elections and election practices. That would play right into his hand.

Do you have a cite for the eleven-year-old hacker? (The big question is, does it scale?)

Jose
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:41 am UTC

Having a superpower putting its resources into duping the people into electing a candidate is a problem, especially when it's another superpower. You have to wonder what they want in exchange. Now China is becoming friendlier with Russia. I'm not sure there are any superpowers besides that.

addams wrote:ohhh.....
Some people have come up with a very attractive solution to our Orange Problem.
From Public Twitter Feed of Ron Perlman
Yes, annulment! Impeachment is too good for him. Impeachment is for actual presidents, not those illegitimately installed by a foreign power’s ability to rig a very vulnerable system. An annulment would erase two years of the illegal rule.


I mentally read that in the fallout voice. Except without the "!".
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:57 am UTC

ucim wrote:For this reason, be wary of proposals to nationalize elections and election practices. That would play right into his hand.

Do you have a cite for the eleven-year-old hacker? (The big question is, does it scale?)

Jose
I agree we do Not need a centralized voting system.
My state is PAPER!
Your state should be PAPER, too!

umm...
Citations? Okay.

#1. I didn't read it. I'm not 'into' in-depth computery stuff.
I'm flummoxed by image tags.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... tes-214144

#2. Jeeze!! I had No Idea it was That many.
(sigh...) If he's your man...
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/157 ... p-sessions

#3. ech...This one is pretty famous.
It was done at a convention in Las Vegas.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nat ... 975121002/
Again:
https://time.com/5366171/11-year-old-ha ... 0-minutes/
Again:
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/the-s ... 0-minutes/
Again.
Furthermore, Matt Blaze, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the organizers of the “hacking village,” said that these replica websites were actually designed to be more difficult to hack than the official government sites.


About those meetings;
I think they were pep-talks.
"Stay Strong Donald; We will take care of this."
"You know, It would look good if you did 'X' and then 'Y'."


I don't know if I can find the citation.
But; I remember ole' Orange telling a reporter, "The Russians are so good, if they do something, No One will or would ever know."
May not be the exact words. The statement is branded into my memories. With the Shock of McConnell threatening Mr. Obama.

Do you remember That One??
Mich said, "If you go public with this, we will launch a campaign calling you partisan."
In my opinion, McConnell is a Creep, too.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:38 am UTC

I looked at the links. The eleven-year-old hacked a replica of a site used to report results to the public. In other the cases the hacking doesn't scale well. The individual voting machines needed to be attacked one by one. The scalable hack would be to modify the programming of the chips at the factory. This is certainly possible, but isn't what's being reported. (It was a concern of mine when Bush was president and his administration was involved with voting machines. I forget what company.)

My state is paper, the filled-in circles counted optically with a scantron-like device.

addams wrote:(sigh...) If he's your man...
If you're referring to the orange bush, he's definitely not my man. Or any kind of man at all. Double ditto McConnell. He's vile and competent.

Advice to American voters - learn to think! That's our vulnerability.

Jose
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:58 am UTC

ucim wrote:
Advice to American voters - learn to think! That's our vulnerability.

Jose


With what time? When people are working longer hours and sleeping less, there's not as much ability to think these days.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:53 am UTC

Contents of another email I got from the Trump campaign:

The Democrats are so far gone.

When asked if they’d support FREE HEALTHCARE for illegal aliens (including criminals), every 2020 BIG GOVERNMENT SOCIALIST candidate proudly raised their hand… on national television!

Just when we thought their crazy idea of single-payer healthcare couldn’t get any more insane, they now want to waste even MORE of your hard-earned, taxpayer dollars to cover dangerous criminals. Mexico isn’t sending their best!

President Trump knows this idea is madness, and he wants to send a clear message to the Left that as long as he’s President, he will ALWAYS put AMERICA FIRST.

Now, let’s show them just how out of touch with the American People they really are.

Take our Official American Citizens vs Illegal Aliens Survey by 9 PM TONIGHT.

AMERICAN CITIZENS VS ILLEGAL ALIENS SURVEY

SUPPORTER:
SURVEY ID:
SURVEY RESPONSE: PENDING
DEADLINE: 9:00 TONIGHT

Who do you think our government should put first when it comes to health insurance?

⚪ American citizens

⚪ Illegal aliens

 TAKE THE SURVEY NOW

Attention: Please take the survey by 9:00 PM tonight to be sure your answers are shared with President Trump: https://action.donaldjtrump.com/american-citizens-vs-illegal-aliens-survey


We are going to PUBLISH the results of this survey so that the 2020 Big Government Socialists can finally see how WRONG their priorities are, and how out of touch with Americans they are.

Please take our Official American Citizens vs Illegal Aliens Survey by 9:00 PM TONIGHT to have your voice heard.

Thank you,

Team Trump 2020
 
TAKE THE SURVEY

===

In other news:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/03/18/glenn_beck_if_trump_doesnt_win_we_are_officially_at_the_end_of_the_country_as_we_know_it.html
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:19 am UTC

In actual news, there's been a lot of fear of Trump's upcoming ICE raids. I'm divided between letting people know, and not terrifying them with something they can't control. I'm leaning towards the latter.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:57 am UTC

sardia wrote:In actual news, there's been a lot of fear of Trump's upcoming ICE raids. I'm divided between letting people know, and not terrifying them with something they can't control. I'm leaning towards the latter.
If you have useful information for people you know then you should act on that information.
If you know families that will be losing their adult members, you can step in and help those left behind.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby MartianInvader » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:54 pm UTC

ucim wrote:(It was a concern of mine when Bush was president and his administration was involved with voting machines. I forget what company.)

Diebold?
Let's have a fervent argument, mostly over semantics, where we all claim the burden of proof is on the other side!

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:56 pm UTC

sardia wrote:In actual news, there's been a lot of fear of Trump's upcoming ICE raids. I'm divided between letting people know, and not terrifying them with something they can't control. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Just sharing a message saying "ICE RAIDS ARE COMING" is exceptionally harmful. If you have specific information, with date and places ("ICE agents seen in X neighborhood in Y city on 7/3/2019", that is actually helpful.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:12 pm UTC

MartianInvader wrote:Diebold?
Yep.

Jose
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:01 pm UTC

ucim wrote:...except that he was not "illegitimately elected". There's no evidence (of which I am aware) that votes were changed in sufficient quantities to change the outcome. And while he lost the popular vote, that's not how we elect the president any more than simply counting home runs is how the World Series is decided.


As much as I dislike the guy, and the fact of his presidency, this whole "illegitimately elected" thing is getting tiresome. Trump won the Electoral College, therefore he won the election.

The issue is that he did illicit things during the campaign that influenced American voters to freely cast their ballots in his direction.


Obama gave a highly publicized and celebrated speech in Germany leading up to his election... Last time I checked, Germany was a foreign power... and yet they facilitated a massive, highly visible campaign event for a US presidential candidate; the motive was obviously to sway public opinion - both in Germany and here in the United States. The whole point was to show US voters how well liked and respected Obama would be around the world.

The illicit thing that Russia did was intended to sway public opinion. The Russian method was obviously more dubious because of the illegal nature of the activities involved - but the motive and the consequence are ultimately the same.

So in both cases, you have a foreign power attempting to sway our presidential election. The former is just being more upfront about it.

The system wasn't rigged. Rather, Americans were duped. It's so easy to do, especially when we care so little about our privacy that we allow ourselves to be microtargeted by social media in exchange for likes and follows. It is we the people that need to wake up. If we were thinking and paying attention, this wouldn't have happened.


The system is largely a popularity contest. It's based on image and name recognition, and vague promises that are themselves largely based on image and name recognition.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:26 pm UTC

cphite wrote:Obama gave a highly publicized and celebrated speech in Germany leading up to his election... Last time I checked, Germany was a foreign power... and yet they facilitated a massive, highly visible campaign event for a US presidential candidate; the motive was obviously to sway public opinion - both in Germany and here in the United States. The whole point was to show US voters how well liked and respected Obama would be around the world.

The illicit thing that Russia did was intended to sway public opinion. The Russian method was obviously more dubious because of the illegal nature of the activities involved - but the motive and the consequence are ultimately the same.

So in both cases, you have a foreign power attempting to sway our presidential election. The former is just being more upfront about it.
There's a world of difference between throwing a pageant in your own country for someone you like versus engaging in a campaign of disinformation somewhere else to discredit someone you don't.

It's not just that Germany failed to break the law. They also didn't go behind our back, didn't disseminate lies and false news stories, didn't misrepresent themselves as Americans, didn't do this in someone else's backyard -- and didn't tell everyone that McCain was running a secret pedo-ring in the basement of a local pizzahut. These are not even remotely similar.

The really nice thing about statements like "People just need to be smarter" is that, ultimately, it lets you abdicate responsibility and not do anything at all.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:52 pm UTC

cphite wrote:Obama gave a highly publicized and celebrated speech in Germany leading up to his election... Last time I checked, Germany was a foreign power... and yet they facilitated a massive, highly visible campaign event for a US presidential candidate; the motive was obviously to sway public opinion - both in Germany and here in the United States. The whole point was to show US voters how well liked and respected Obama would be around the world.

The illicit thing that Russia did was intended to sway public opinion. The Russian method was obviously more dubious because of the illegal nature of the activities involved - but the motive and the consequence are ultimately the same.

So in both cases, you have a foreign power attempting to sway our presidential election. The former is just being more upfront about it.
Bob bought some woodworking tools and spent his evenings making custom furniture and repairing existing furniture for people. The motive was to get money to pay for his daughter's college tuition. Charlie broke into his neighbours' homes, stole their electronic goods and sold them across town for cash. The motive was to get money to pay for his daughter's college tuition. So, in both cases, you have a guy trying to pay for his daughter's college tuition. The former is just being more upfront about it.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:35 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:The really nice thing about statements like "People just need to be smarter" is that, ultimately, it lets you abdicate responsibility and not do anything at all.
Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing, especially for the wrong reasons.

And while it might "let people abdicate responsibility..." (something I disagree with but that doesn't matter here), it certainly doesn't require the abdication of responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own facebook diet. People need to be told to take responsibility for their own facebook diet. We can't take responsibility for other people's facebook diet.

Or can we?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:01 pm UTC

Could we just skip to the part where you say "And that's all I have to say about that"? I don't think a productive discussion with you on this topic is even remotely possible.
Last edited by The Great Hippo on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
cphite wrote:Obama gave a highly publicized and celebrated speech in Germany leading up to his election... Last time I checked, Germany was a foreign power... and yet they facilitated a massive, highly visible campaign event for a US presidential candidate; the motive was obviously to sway public opinion - both in Germany and here in the United States. The whole point was to show US voters how well liked and respected Obama would be around the world.

The illicit thing that Russia did was intended to sway public opinion. The Russian method was obviously more dubious because of the illegal nature of the activities involved - but the motive and the consequence are ultimately the same.

So in both cases, you have a foreign power attempting to sway our presidential election. The former is just being more upfront about it.
Bob bought some woodworking tools and spent his evenings making custom furniture and repairing existing furniture for people. The motive was to get money to pay for his daughter's college tuition. Charlie broke into his neighbours' homes, stole their electronic goods and sold them across town for cash. The motive was to get money to pay for his daughter's college tuition. So, in both cases, you have a guy trying to pay for his daughter's college tuition. The former is just being more upfront about it.


The focus of the post I was referring to was on the interference in our election process; and the point is that both campaigns accepted actions by foreign powers that can be construed as interference. That the Russian interference involved shady and illicit activity and the German interference was open and public, does not negate the simple fact that both were examples of interference.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 pm UTC

cphite wrote:The focus of the post I was referring to was on the interference in our election process; and the point is that both campaigns accepted actions by foreign powers that can be construed as interference. That the Russian interference involved shady and illicit activity and the German interference was open and public, does not negate the simple fact that both were examples of interference.
Germany "interfered" in the election only in the same sense that I "interfered" in my friend's marriage when I gave a speech at the wedding and mentioned that I think he's a pretty cool guy. Meanwhile, Russia's over here breaking into the bride-to-be's house and planting fake evidence that she's been secretly running an under-age pornography ring while also rooting through her trash to try and find some real dirt.

Calling both of these "interference" is deeply misleading.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:02 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Calling both of these "interference" is deeply misleading.
Or; It could be a 'false equivalency'.
Which is meant to mislead.

Or; A "Both Sides Argument'.
Which is meant to mislead.

We all Know what Trump, his Staff, his Family, his Allies and Money Laundering Supporters from Nations that are Adversarial to all the NATO nations did things we have never witnessed before. There is NO! action any politician has ever taken that can be compared to the Aggressive and Systemic interference in the 2016 U.S Presidential election.

ohhh....umm....What agents of the U.S. did in Central and South America can be compared.
But...I don't want to do that.

Let's discuss how to dig ourselves out of This hole.
Then we can peer into some of those other holes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby slinches » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:19 pm UTC

That is a good point, addams. What options are there to deter the types of interference that are being employed these days? International law and sanctions don't really leave much room for a proportional response, as far as I'm aware. The tools at our disposal seem to be either ineffective or severe enough to be provocative. Do we risk going to war over this? Do we interfere in their elections in a like-for-like retaliation (which seems ethically dubious)? What do we do about candidates that receive a benefit? How can we hold our own accountable for accepting that support without potentially giving foreign bad actors another tool to interfere?

Not trying to say it's an unsolvable problem. I just don't know the answers. Maybe it's not as bad of a situation as it appears, but if it isn't, why aren't we already using those tools effectively?


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