xkcd

by **Hexadecimator** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:14 pm UTC

IE7. Why would I need anything else?

I don't need firefox's features, and it has even more memory leaks than IE7 (which I can't leave open for more than a day or it will begin eating up around 400MB of RAM). It took a full second to start up and had nothing I wanted that wasn't already pat of IE or my AHK script.

I have no security woes. No problems with viruses. No issues beyond the aforementioned memory leak, though I think this is due to Flash or Java, since I can leave basic html sites open for weeks on end without issues.

All browsers suck in general, but IE opens instantly (suck it, Firefox) and displays webpages without any problems. Why would I want something inferior?

Edit: My lack of security problems may also stem from using the MVPS hosts file.

by **EvanED** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:30 pm UTC

wing wrote:On a side note, Ubuntu has been getting on my tits enough recently that I've been tempted sorely to switch to Gentoo or something. Maybe while I'm on break here. But that's for ANOTHER religious war. Why don't we have that one yet?

Just FYI, Gentoo isn't terribly kind to you either regarding Firefox. I've got two versions of it installed at the moment because it installed the 64-bit one first, which then sent me on a troubleshooting search that led to discovering that I should have installed a different package to get the 32-bit one. (In fact, I think I will unmerge the 64-bit one now... having that around has been nothing but annoyance because it is started by the "firefox" command, so I usually start it, use it for a little bit, visit a site that uses flash, and go "damn it, wrong browser", have to close all my current Firefox windows, then run firefox-bin.)

by **wing** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:13 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
wing wrote:On a side note, Ubuntu has been getting on my tits enough recently that I've been tempted sorely to switch to Gentoo or something. Maybe while I'm on break here. But that's for ANOTHER religious war. Why don't we have that one yet?

Just FYI, Gentoo isn't terribly kind to you either regarding Firefox. I've got two versions of it installed at the moment because it installed the 64-bit one first, which then sent me on a troubleshooting search that led to discovering that I should have installed a different package to get the 32-bit one. (In fact, I think I will unmerge the 64-bit one now... having that around has been nothing but annoyance because it is started by the "firefox" command, so I usually start it, use it for a little bit, visit a site that uses flash, and go "damn it, wrong browser", have to close all my current Firefox windows, then run firefox-bin.)

Firefox, for the aforementioned memory-eating reasons, can lick my nuts. Permanently. The only reason it's still around is because some sad souls decided that Eclipse should depend on it. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't use Eclipse.

Bye, Firefox.

by **Amnesiasoft** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:46 am UTC

wing wrote:Firefox, for the aforementioned memory-eating reasons, can lick my nuts. Permanently. The only reason it's still around is because some sad souls decided that Eclipse should depend on it. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't use Eclipse.

Bye, Firefox.

I could have sworn it was a dependency for something else that has no need for it too. I haven't booted to Linux in a while, but I think OOo marked Fx as a dependency too...

by **wing** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:28 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
wing wrote:Firefox, for the aforementioned memory-eating reasons, can lick my nuts. Permanently. The only reason it's still around is because some sad souls decided that Eclipse should depend on it. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't use Eclipse.

Bye, Firefox.

I could have sworn it was a dependency for something else that has no need for it too. I haven't booted to Linux in a while, but I think OOo marked Fx as a dependency too...

Not anymore, at least. But OpenFail can go as soon as I find a replacement.

by **Hurduser** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:10 pm UTC

Telnet to port 80! :lol:

nah, honestly: Konqueror, it's free, fast, usable, stable-ish (better than FF), tabbed and has mouse guestures.

by **HappySmileMan** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:29 pm UTC

I use Opera, but tend to have Firefox for anything requiring Java or Flash, since for some reason plugin areas have a tendency to just randomly grey out.

by **Elenion** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:42 pm UTC

I didnt read the other answers but the browser i use and love is OPERA <3

I love the mouse-movements more than anything. And also I really like supporting a Norwegian software-company (Opera Software) It's also good looking and as far as I know a very secure browser.

by **Hurduser** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:01 am UTC

I feel uncomfortable using a closed source browser, so no way I use it.

by **Beyondthewall** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:15 am UTC

Camino on the mac, because it's pretty and fast and does everything I need it to.
Firefox on Ubuntu, because it's useful and customizable.
Opera on Windows, because it's better than Firefox if you don't customize firefox and if I were customizing anything I'd be in the Ubuntu boot anyways.

by **Pobega** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:02 pm UTC

W3M. It is fast, secure, and let's me use Vim as my form editor; I'm all in.

by **enk** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:05 pm UTC

Pobega wrote:W3M. It is fast, secure, and let's me use Vim as my form editor; I'm all in.

So does mozex for Firefox!

by **Endless Mike** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:46 pm UTC

Camino on Mac (with an occasional use of Safari when something decides to be goofy for some ungodly reason)
Firefox on Windows at home
IE on Windows at work

I want to try out Flock. I hear it is very good.

by **tiny** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:20 pm UTC

I'm totally into Camino! I had it running for over a week straight and did a lot of heavy surfing (stuff that would have killed Firefox, like lotsa youtube), and it didn't crash at all. The only thing that happened was that it got pretty slow in the evening of the last day, so I had to restart it. But it didn't crash.
*cuddles Camino*

by **Hench** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:52 pm UTC

I really like Firefox over IE7, mainly because of the extensions. But I keep it around for those sites that don't work in Firefox...stupid IE7, those web standards exist for a reason! Use them!

The speed issues in Firefox got me interested in Opera, so I tried it out for a while. My main problems with Opera are as follows:

Gestures were there, but from what I could tell weren't customizable. I love me my mouse gestures, and Firefox lets me redefine them as I see fit.
UI was too large. I have Firefox set to use minimal space, and Opera just took up too much screen real-estate.
General lack of customizability.

It did run faster, but I seriously missed my extensions. Besides, some tweaking in "about:config" in Firefox and I got it running as fast as Opera did.

So, yeah, Firefox all the way!

by **rabyd_donkey** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

wing wrote:Wget doesn't display anything.

What's wrong with pairing it with cat?

In my experience, Opera is very nice. Speed dial is pretty sweet and I can open 5 thousand tabs without worry.

Whatever the best browser is, it *isn't* IE.

by **Tei** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:45 am UTC

rabyd_donkey wrote:
wing wrote:Wget doesn't display anything.

What's wrong with pairing it with cat? .

Or you can do (pseudocode):
$ wget http://www.google.com -o file.htm && lynx -dump file://file.htm

by **shash** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:14 pm UTC

Konqueror on (Gentoo) Linux, firefox on windows.

Also, firefox on Linux for that odd page or two that want some specific implementation of AJAX.

I need nothing more.

by **kanavazk** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:43 am UTC

I HATE IE. Especially IE 6. IE 7 was more secure but they really f***ed it up. I have FireFox, but I never use it. Ever. I use Opera Web Browser.

(Yes I censor my swears.)

by **AbNo** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:20 am UTC

I use Opera primarily, after being introduced to it by someone in 2003.

I keep Firefox on hand as a backup, as some pages actively refuse Opera, and are very adamant about doing so, even to the best of my (half-arsed) attempts at getting around them. (Most notably Microsoft's sabotage of Opera every Fall)

Firefox is nice, but it seems to be moving towards Bloatware status a bit much.

by **e946** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:03 pm UTC

My girlfriend absolutely refuses to use anything but IE7. I don't understand it.

The memory issues in firefox don't bother me because 1: I have a lot of memory so i don't need to worry about it and 2: I close firefox enough that everything gets cleared.

by **AbNo** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:54 pm UTC

Speaking of Microsoft sabotaging Opera's Hotmail access...

Is anyone else having consistent "message not found" problems in Hotmail via opera? :evil:

by **AntiRush** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:22 pm UTC

Epiphany! It just works.

by **segmentation fault** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:30 pm UTC

elinks.

/thread

by **adlaiff6** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:09 am UTC

Tei wrote:
rabyd_donkey wrote:
wing wrote:Wget doesn't display anything.

What's wrong with pairing it with cat? .

Or you can do (pseudocode):
$ wget http://www.google.com -o file.htm && lynx -dump file://file.htm

Yeah, you know, or wget http://www.google.com -O - and parse the html yourself.

by **enk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:04 am UTC

adlaiff6 wrote:
Tei wrote:
rabyd_donkey wrote:
wing wrote:Wget doesn't display anything.

What's wrong with pairing it with cat? .

Or you can do (pseudocode):
$ wget http://www.google.com -o file.htm && lynx -dump file://file.htm

Yeah, you know, or wget http://www.google.com -O - and parse the html yourself.

Surely you don't need wget for that.

Just Telnet to port 80

by **Washer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:12 am UTC

Haven't used it much (i only installed it on windows), but from my experience FF3 is a lot better on memory & speed. Not like it matters, anyway. I have so many extensions it's a moot point. Extensions can & will lock you in.... hard.

by **Sollos** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:33 pm UTC

I am now using Opera after getting fed up with Firefox. A few days ago, Firefox lost all my profile settings, including bookmarks, history, etc. I tried to repair it, as it's happened before, but it was having problems with profiles, etc. I recovered my bookmarks though, and transfered them to Opera.

I'll definitly have to try Firefox 3 though, because I love how it operates compared to Opera, and hopefully they'll fix the memory issues, because I will, and do, leave my browser up for weeks, sometimes even months, usually whenever the power goes out.

I do like that Opera is much more committed to standards than Firefox, and it pulls up the cached version of a website when you use the back button.

by **b.i.o** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:14 am UTC

Sollos wrote:I am now using Opera after getting fed up with Firefox. A few days ago, Firefox lost all my profile settings, including bookmarks, history, etc. I tried to repair it, as it's happened before, but it was having problems with profiles, etc. I recovered my bookmarks though, and transfered them to Opera.

I'll definitly have to try Firefox 3 though, because I love how it operates compared to Opera, and hopefully they'll fix the memory issues, because I will, and do, leave my browser up for weeks, sometimes even months, usually whenever the power goes out.

I do like that Opera is much more committed to standards than Firefox, and it pulls up the cached version of a website when you use the back button.

For dealing with recovering profiles, etc. you can use FEBE which will backup pretty much anything you need that's FF related. FF3 is supposed to fix memory issues and be much more standards compliant than FF2, so it'll be better on that front as well.

And in my experience FF does pull up the cached version of the website when you hit the back button...

by **Robo-Jesus** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:01 pm UTC

I've always like Firefox the best with windows, and, truth be told, I haven't actually used a lot of other browsers. IE, AOL, and Netscape are pretty much the only browsers I've ever used besides Firefox.
So, I know a lot of people out there are probably mad at me right now for saying Firefox is the best, when I haven't even used a lot of the Independent/Non-Commercial browsers. But, if you find yourself in choosing between the Commercial browsers, do go with Firefox.
But, honestly, I don't use a lot of the Plugins and tools for Firefox. I like it because it supports a lot of Media and applets other Browsers haven't. I don't know about the latest updates to IE, or even AOL, but in the past, they've loaded the pages incredibly quickly, but left behind a lot of the data. If someone wants to tell me this problem has been fixed, please do, but it won't change which browser I use. Also, I don't regularly fear downloading Viruses and such from the intarwebz, but I do feel slightly unprotected when browsing with IE.

Additional: Does anybody know if people even still use Netscape? It's been years since I've actually seen anybody browsing with it.

Edit: I felt like a Bigoted Douche after posting this, because I didn't say why I thought Firefox was the best, I just kept repeating that "It was the best". Fixed.

by **OOPMan** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:04 pm UTC

I use Opera almost exclusively except for certain bits of Web-dev that require the use of FF-only things like TamperData and Firebug.

For ordinary browsing and mailing, opera is my bread and butter, though.

I think that people not using Opera because it isn't open-source need to get off their high-horses, because in the case of Opera it isn't really an issues, since Opera ASA are not a bunch of moronic, corporate fiends.

They also really need to try Opera Mini 4, which beats the pants of every other mobile browser...

by **Strilanc** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:37 pm UTC

Firefox: AdBlock + NoScript + (RIP + Aardvark)
There's no going back for me. The real internet is too flashy and ugly.

by **wing** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:47 am UTC

Silver2Falcon wrote: FF3 is supposed to fix memory issues and be much more standards compliant than FF2, so it'll be better on that front as well.

FF3:
1) Does not fix the fucking memory issues.
2) DOES fix the standards compliance issues.

by **creativename** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:35 am UTC

I've used my fair share of browsers, across Windows and GNU/Linux.

IE6 and IE7 suck, they're ugly, slow, and are full of security vulnerabilities. They also suck at parsing CSS correctly, though it looks like IE8 may finally fix that (I heard it even passes the Acid2 test).

I've used both AOL Explorer and the bigger AOL browser, both of which suck. I had dial-up for years, and AOL was my primary browser back then. I didn't know of anything else.

Opera is an okay browser, but it has its quirks, and lacks extensions.

Firefox is sweet when it works correctly, and the extensions are awesome. I've had severe problems with memory leaks though--always on Windows. Firefox 2 had such bad memory leaks that I had to give up using it as my browser on Windows. Firefox 3b1+ doesn't have the leak problem, at least for me. On Debian I actually use Iceweasel, but it's the same thing. I've tried other Mozilla based browsers, SeaMonkey, Epiphany, etc., and they're alright. I actually used SeaMonkey for a long time while I had the memory leak problem with Firefox, it's a very capable browser.

I've only used Safari on Windows, and hardly for anything more than some web design. I guess I never thought of it as much more than a gimmick, at any rate, I'm not used to the way it renders pages.

Netscape (yes it still does exist) is basically Firefox with a bunch of crappy AOL stuff thrown in. The glory days of Netscape are long gone.

I've used Dillo, and have been impressed with its speed. The Dillo included with Damn Small Linux is especially nifty, it has tabs. The rendering is lacking of course, but that's not really the point. There is unfortunately no functional Dillo port to Windows, but OffByOne provides some of the same functionality.

Text based browsers can be cool too. I mostly use Lynx, I don't know why. I've also used Links, but Elinks is superior. Elinks is actually a very nice text browser, though I guess I'm just more used to Lynx. I've used w3m a little bit, but never really learned how to use it, I'm afraid. When reading text-dominated sites, especially on a slow connection, text browsers can be quite handy. When X crashes they can be a lifesaver...

I've used Konqueror, in KDE as well as under Cygwin. It's a very functional browser, but I don't like it. I never liked how it rendered, and the whole browser always felt a little wrong to me. That's all I really have against the browser.

I've also used a lot of rare browsers and legacy browsers, but none of them seriously.

tl;dr -- My favorites: Firefox, Dillo, Lynx & Elinks.

by **Xbehave** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:37 am UTC

ive never used opera but if i didn't love being able to customize ive heard its fast (faster than gecko), compliant (looks at IE, and even firefox2) and stable (looks at firefox2)

However i love to be able to tweak, and as such 90% of my problems are my fault. So my number 1 browser has to be firefox3 (maybe FF2 was a poor build for non windows, or maybe some muppet at canonical broked it, although most likely its that i only have 256MB ram). If you have problems with FF2 i strongly recommend installing it.
it seams to use native widgets (meaning it will look right on mac and kde)
it loads faster than FF2 and even konq4
it uses less memory than FF2
its acid2 compliant (laughs at IE)
it doesn't harvest OSS code then mess the OSS devs around (looks at safari)

A killer feature for geeks and norms alike is one click bookmarking (i have no idea where the competition are but id guess opera users have this as they claim to have everything.
Also to boast for extensibility of it my current setup wastes 2 thin toolbar of space which means the content gets priority, while.

my only problem is that my browser goes down (and not in a good way) sometimes on flash heavy sites.

so if you like controll FF3>konqueror>IE7>opera>links
but if you like taking it like a bitch and learning how to use something instead of telling it what to do then opera may be a good choice

by **Amnesiasoft** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:57 am UTC

Where have people gotten this idea that Opera is not customizeable? Opera has both Widgets (which admittedly, is a rather poorly implemented feature) and User JS. Half the people I see tell me they won't use Opera because they want their stumble upon button, which can probably be done as a javascript bookmark you could place anywhere on the interface.

I think that people not using Opera because it isn't open-source need to get off their high-horses, because in the case of Opera it isn't really an issues, since Opera ASA are not a bunch of moronic, corporate fiends.

I agree, it's not like Opera does anything evil, they brought people their precious tabs.

by **Xbehave** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:37 am UTC

The first real tabbed browser with any significant presence on the web was Netcaptor, created by the very talented Adam Stiles way back in 1997.
....
In September of 2001, Dave Hyatt added a tabbed browsing mode to Mozilla. This feature was release in Mozilla 0.9.5 in October of 2001

In December of 2001, Opera Software released version 6 of its Opera browser

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008433.html
so in short OPERA DID NOT INVENT TABBED BROWSING

also theres alot more to open source than evil vs good. I wont bore you with my personal opinion but basically they're are plenty of non evil companies that are closed source and some evil ones in OS (im not sure how 'good' canonical, Mozilla, sun & Intel are), but more to do that the improvements in code arn't wasted if you don't use the product, for example safari uses a modified khtml for rendering.

"Where have people gotten this idea that Opera is not customizable?"
1) its not end user customizable, sure somebody could write a JavaScript applet but end users wont. Firefox has a huge repository of extensions for end users to just use! opera can be extended in the same way konq,IE7,etc can but firefox has been extended for years so the extensions are already there.
2) its not developer customizable, if your wanting to make a really core extension to Firefox you can always take the code and do it. Your limited to what opera devs tell you you can extend when it comes to opera extensions.

by **Popidge** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:20 am UTC

Personally, i like Firefox as it's rather nice looking (if you find the right theme), Adblock and Noscript keep me slightly more reassured about my safety, it's easily customisable and i'm used to it.
memory leaks never bother me, as i'm always concsious about my memory usage, and i restart firefox often simply because i don't like having lots of apps open at the same time.
And i can contol my media through it, which is always a plus for me
IE7 tries hard to do well, but doesn't make the grade. I just don't like it at all. Call it what you will, i just can't be arsed with it. I haven't installed it on my windows box, and don't plan to.
I don't use opera that much, but it works, and is a backup just in case i get bored of firefox.

The one redeeming thing Opera has is it's Cellphone version, Opera Mini, it's a brilliant phone browser, especially for phones like mine (w810i), it works well, and the pages are pre-processed on thier servers before being sent to your phone, so it renders them well, and reduces data cost (if your network stings you in the ass for GPRS like mine does)

by **AbNo** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:59 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:Where have people gotten this idea that Opera is not customizeable? Opera has both Widgets (which admittedly, is a rather poorly implemented feature) and User JS. Half the people I see tell me they won't use Opera because they want their stumble upon button, which can probably be done as a javascript bookmark you could place anywhere on the interface.

http://my.opera.com/suopera/blog/

by **JayDee** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:27 am UTC

creativename wrote:Text based browsers can be cool too. I mostly use Lynx, I don't know why. I've also used Links, but Elinks is superior. Elinks is actually a very nice text browser, though I guess I'm just more used to Lynx. I've used w3m a little bit, but never really learned how to use it, I'm afraid. When reading text-dominated sites, especially on a slow connection, text browsers can be quite handy. When X crashes they can be a lifesaver...

I know the reason I prefer Lynx to Elinks is because I think it has a cooler name, but maybe that's just me...

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