Cost to %proof ratio.

Apparently, people like to eat.

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Okita » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:32 pm UTC

Y'know, I never understood using water filtration. I understand how the filter removes impurities and makes low-quality vodka taste better but I don't see the financial reason for the process. I'd assume the financial improvement by running it through the filter isn't as high as just buying a better bottle. Besides, there's diminishing returns on the filtration too, no?

The way I see it though is if you are drinking the lowest of the low range stuff, then chances are you're probably drinking to just get drunk in which I think you need to examine your lifestyle. Either that or it's all you have access to because you're under 18 and shouldn't be drinking according to the law anyway. Still, the world of cocktails has a lot of good drinking and is extremely diverse. People who simplify it are not well-informed. As for finding good quality cocktails...that's a diff. matter.

What I do know is that I obviously need to Girl TM's school of cocktail making.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:35 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Most of the time the top shelf vodka isn't actually better than the middle shelf, it's just packaged prettier. Ahh, the wonders of suggestion.

As for Vladdy....it's actually just fine if you run it through a water filter three or four times

I'm pretty sure that myth busters, well, busted this one.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

Not really. The result of their experiments was that, between filtered vodka, unfiltered bottom shelf, and top shelf vodka, one person chose the unfiltered bottom shelf, and two chose the top shelf, and both rated the filtered vodka somewhere between, with a marked improvement over subsequent filtrations.

As for the other claim, blind taste tests were run using top-shelf-drinking vodka snobs. They rather consistently chose middle-shelf vodka (smirnoff and the like) over their favorite high-prestige brands (gray goose, ketel one and so forth)
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:08 pm UTC

If I recall that episode correctly, they had one guy who was a professional vodka taster (I don't think that's his job title, but it's what he did) and their usual Tori Kari Grant club or something, and only the guy who's job it is to taste vodka came close to getting things right... everyone else pretty much decided that it all tasted the same.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby mosc » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:24 pm UTC

grey goose is so distinctively clean though, I can't imagine mixing it up with anything. Smirnoff has that nice twinge to it which is not for me but people definitely do like. I think most of those taste tests are done with people who don't really have vodka preferences so of course at the end of the test, they haven't shown much of a preference! I certainly respect the "all vodkas taste the same" approach especially since I doubt most ppl drink it straight. Also, after the first shot the taste starts to blur very rapidly.

Still, if you drink it as an occasional aperitif like I do (takes me about 12 months to go through a fifth), it makes a big difference.

Also, Vodkas are very temperature sensitive in terms of flavor I find. A well chilled vodka can often best one of superior quality at room temp.

EDIT: Oh, and after the success of grey goose and belvedere, you see so many of these premium vodkas like chopain and Ketel one which are really quite junky. It's no wonder ppl prefer more... defined flavors like smirnoff, sky, finlandia, and other mid-shelfs to the, ahem, nouveau riche.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:52 pm UTC

Okita wrote:What I do know is that I obviously need to Girl TM's school of cocktail making.


Especially if you want to make truly ridiculous things with Gin, Herbal and Flower Liqueurs, and fruit juices.

That thing with the violet liqueur was tasty, and also the best colour ever. I don't think I've ever drank (drunk? The conjugation of "drink" always fucks me up) anything that was cloudy, periwinkle purple.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Mathmagic » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:32 pm UTC

Belial wrote:drunk? The conjugation of "drink" always fucks me up

Coincidentally, as does the actual act.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Okita » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:30 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Okita wrote:What I do know is that I obviously need to Girl TM's school of cocktail making.


Especially if you want to make truly ridiculous things with Gin, Herbal and Flower Liqueurs, and fruit juices.

That thing with the violet liqueur was tasty, and also the best colour ever. I don't think I've ever drank (drunk? The conjugation of "drink" always fucks me up) anything that was cloudy, periwinkle purple.


This reminds me of
Terry Pratchett wrote:Never trust any complicated cocktail that remainds perfectly clear until
the last ingredient goes in, and then immediately clouds.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:56 pm UTC

Terry Pratchett, I love you, but you are a foolish man. Fresh-squeezed lemon juice makes just about anything cloudy, and it is awesome in cocktails.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:55 am UTC

Yes but I doubt the drink prior to the lemon juice is perfectly clear. And that the lemon juice is the last bit in.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Amarantha » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:45 am UTC

mosc wrote:Gin based martini's are lame.


At least they are martinis ;)

When did the word "cocktail" become so unfashionable that people have to call every mixed drink a "martini"?

*bes old-fashioned*
*drinks Old-Fashioned*


Belial wrote:That thing with the violet liqueur was tasty, and also the best colour ever. I don't think I've ever drank (drunk? The conjugation of "drink" always fucks me up) anything that was cloudy, periwinkle purple.


Violet liqueur... creme de violette? Was the drink an aviation? I had my first one of those just recently and found it delightful. I'd love to make them at home, but I'm not sure I can justify buying two new bottles (Luxardo and creme de violette) that I can only use for one cocktail :P

*seeks out other recipes using current stash plus Luxardo or cdv*

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby evilbeanfiend » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:53 am UTC

a violet liqueur could also be parfait amour or creme de cassis or mure or any other purple fruit
what flavour was it?
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:01 pm UTC

Amarantha wrote:When did the word "cocktail" become so unfashionable that people have to call every mixed drink a "martini"?


Or, if you're mosc, "a glass of vodka" apparently translates to "martini" as well...

Violet liqueur... creme de violette?


Homemade violet liqueur, actually. Creme de Violette is ridiculously difficult to acquire around here.

Was the drink an aviation?


It was indeed. That is a pretty damn good drink, Girl has made them with the default Grenadine, with homemade violet liqueur, and with St. Germaine's, and they've all been delicious.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:51 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Amarantha wrote:When did the word "cocktail" become so unfashionable that people have to call every mixed drink a "martini"?


Or, if you're mosc, "a glass of vodka" apparently translates to "martini" as well...

Well, if he makes it like a martini lacking vermouth, it's "a glass of cold vodka."

Which still isn't a martini but whatev.

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby mosc » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:06 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
Belial wrote:
Amarantha wrote:When did the word "cocktail" become so unfashionable that people have to call every mixed drink a "martini"?


Or, if you're mosc, "a glass of vodka" apparently translates to "martini" as well...

Well, if he makes it like a martini lacking vermouth, it's "a glass of cold vodka."

Which still isn't a martini but whatev.

I never said I called it a martini. I said when I was EXPERIMENTING with martinis, my favorite became 0% vermouth and 100% vodka. Obviously that's not called Martini anymore and that was my point. I prefer vodka to martinis.

I repeat my point though that anything (and I mean anything) that has some alcohol and is served cold in a martini glass will likely get called a martini.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

Shit, Daquiri's are Stingers are martinis? :roll:
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby mosc » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm UTC

I've seen Daiquiris served in martini glasses called things like "strawberry breeze martini", yes.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:02 pm UTC

I think that's a problem with the places you're drinking because even chain-restaurants at least get that one right.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Amarantha » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:41 pm UTC

While we're being pedantic about cocktails, can I point out that a daiquiri is rum, lime juice and sugar? Those other things are alcohol slushies.


Belial wrote:Homemade violet liqueur, actually. Creme de Violette is ridiculously difficult to acquire around here.


According to eGullet, it's damn hard to get anywhere at all. Never occurred to me to try making my own - thanks for the idea :)

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:00 pm UTC

I'm willing to let strawberry daiquiris slide, assuming they're still made with rum.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, a "margarita" made with rum is also just a daiquiri variant (because it also probably has triple sec in it). Bars in San Juan, PR, notwithstanding.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Flying Betty » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:24 am UTC

I assume that "margaritas" are slushy drinks involving tequila and "daiquiris" are their respective rum counterparts. I'm not sure I know of a place where I could get a non-frozen, original daiquiri. They're even more bastardized than the official martini.

Tell me more of this violet liqueur. It sounds intriguing. And I like violets.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Amarantha » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:47 am UTC

Flying Betty wrote:Tell me more of this violet liqueur. It sounds intriguing. And I like violets.


I'll let the experts tell you :)

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=39705
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=109475

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:31 am UTC

Girl made it with violet flavored candies. Turned out a bit strong, but we used strong vodka. I'll get her to post about it later.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby hermaj » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:52 am UTC

Makes me wish I didn't throw out that 3/4 of a packet of Parma Violets. I do not know where I am going to get Parma Violets again... but I definitely know where to get Skittles so there will be some Skittles vodka coming right up :D

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Girl™ » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:21 pm UTC

Amarantha wrote:
Belial wrote:That thing with the violet liqueur was tasty, and also the best colour ever. I don't think I've ever drank (drunk? The conjugation of "drink" always fucks me up) anything that was cloudy, periwinkle purple.


Violet liqueur... creme de violette? Was the drink an aviation? I had my first one of those just recently and found it delightful. I'd love to make them at home, but I'm not sure I can justify buying two new bottles (Luxardo and creme de violette) that I can only use for one cocktail :P

*seeks out other recipes using current stash plus Luxardo or cdv*


My kudos to you, sir, for immediately picking that out! I've actually found quite a few cocktail recipes using Maraschino that sound really good. Unfortunately, most of them also involve Chartruse, Absinthe, or Campari, none of which I'm willing to pony up the cash for. There's always the Martinez, I guess.

Amarantha wrote:While we're being pedantic about cocktails, can I point out that a daiquiri is rum, lime juice and sugar? Those other things are alcohol slushies.


YES. I like alcohol slushies just fine, but I'd like to ever be able to get a proper daiquiri when I go out. :( Most places don't even make them. I wouldn't bitch about the term evolving, as long as the old thing still fucking existed. It's like serving meatloaf and calling it steak tartare, and then saying, "Well, everything made of chopped meat is called steak tartare now. Why is that a big deal?"

evilbeanfiend wrote:a violet liqueur could also be parfait amour or creme de cassis or mure or any other purple fruit
what flavour was it?


It was homemade creme de violette. I was trying for a rough approximation of Creme Yvette, and I doubt I succeeded very well. :\ I crushed and boiled down Howards violet mints with sugar, vanilla extract, and a bit of jasmine green tea, then mixed the syrup with 100 proof vodka and let it sit and come together for a couple of weeks. It's not really to my liking yet. if I do it again, I'll use violet syrup, 80 proof vodka, and more sugar, while cutting down the vanilla a bit. The Howards violets were nasty to boil down and left a waxy residue. The green tea and the vanilla work really well, though, even if they did turn the whole thing a godawful colour. Experiments are fun!
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Flying Betty » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 pm UTC

Hmm, I might just have to wait until the violets start blooming to try this. I got a pack of the Howards mints and it smelled like the sort of thing that would be left in the bottom of Grandma's candy dish and tasted peculiar and not a bit like violet. Unless there's other easily accessible violet candy out there I think I'd rather use the actual flowers.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Azrael » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:43 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:It was homemade creme de violette. I was trying for a rough approximation of Creme Yvette, and I doubt I succeeded very well. :\ I crushed and boiled down Howards violet mints with sugar, vanilla extract, and a bit of jasmine green tea, then mixed the syrup with 100 proof vodka and let it sit and come together for a couple of weeks. It's not really to my liking yet. if I do it again, I'll use violet syrup, 80 proof vodka, and more sugar, while cutting down the vanilla a bit. The Howards violets were nasty to boil down and left a waxy residue. The green tea and the vanilla work really well, though, even if they did turn the whole thing a godawful colour. Experiments are fun!


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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Belial » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:08 am UTC

Flying Betty wrote:Hmm, I might just have to wait until the violets start blooming to try this. I got a pack of the Howards mints and it smelled like the sort of thing that would be left in the bottom of Grandma's candy dish and tasted peculiar and not a bit like violet. Unless there's other easily accessible violet candy out there I think I'd rather use the actual flowers.


If you boil them down, the terrible candyness separates from the violetness and congeals on the top. You can scrape it off.

That said, actual flowers are probably a good call.

Or violet syrup. You can buy it on amazon.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Girl™ » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:15 pm UTC

Flying Betty wrote:Hmm, I might just have to wait until the violets start blooming to try this. I got a pack of the Howards mints and it smelled like the sort of thing that would be left in the bottom of Grandma's candy dish and tasted peculiar and not a bit like violet. Unless there's other easily accessible violet candy out there I think I'd rather use the actual flowers.


Huh. I found it turned out pretty well, but then, I like that weird grandma taste. Watering it down a bit and adding the other flavors tempered the perfumey-ness, though, so you might not want to give up completely just yet. I'd love to hear how it turns out when made from real violets, though. We don't have enough growing around here, so I'm going to try making wisteria liqueur.

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I am terrible at coming up with ideas for stuff, but have a knack for replicating & critiquing tastes.


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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Azrael » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:50 pm UTC

Tonight I'm going to watch election results while making cocktails. On this list - which won't get finished - are:

Aviation
Martinez
Raspberry Loretto
From Ohgo.sh

And:
Manhattan
Marconi Wireless
From drinkboston.com

UPDATED RESULTS:
I have done my patriotic duty and voted and since moved on to the wrong Martinez. I meant to make the more modern version. I offset the use of London Dry in the first with a dash of simple syrup, as suggested. It's still a little ... well, heavy. Starts off very aromatic (nose-in vs. nose out of glass feels like two different drinks), with an incredibly sweet first impression that quickly gives way to the gin. I'm *not* a gin martini fan (which is why I started tonight with gin based, in case things went south), but this gin as the backup singer thing could grow on me. I think I'll try the modern version next.

MORE UPDATES:
Ok, so I bailed on Martinez #2 last night and made a Manhattan. I guess I don't get the point. I love bourbon, so it just seemed ... unnecessary. I fully intend to try it with real Rye (Rittenhouse 100 proof has been suggested) that wouldn't necessarily be on-the-rocks sipping quality and see what the difference between rye and bourbon can be tasted in the drink.

As for Applejack:
I can't find the stuff, so the Wireless is out for now.

Aviation:
I love this drink. It makes me want better gin. And better maraschino (the Stock is $15/750mL). And fresher lemon juice. Maybe I hit the proportions perfectly, but this is fantastic.

Disclosure: Beefeater and Stock maraschino - better ingredients will make better cocktails, but I didn't feel the need to splurge on the kiddie pool.
Last edited by Azrael on Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:If I recall that episode correctly, they had one guy who was a professional vodka taster (I don't think that's his job title, but it's what he did) and their usual Tori Kari Grant club or something, and only the guy who's job it is to taste vodka came close to getting things right... everyone else pretty much decided that it all tasted the same.

I only saw the end of the episode, but he nailed the final taste test with some absurd number of filterings.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Amarantha » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:46 am UTC

Girl™ wrote:I've actually found quite a few cocktail recipes using Maraschino that sound really good. Unfortunately, most of them also involve Chartruse, Absinthe, or Campari, none of which I'm willing to pony up the cash for. There's always the Martinez, I guess.


Oh, good point, thanks :) I make Martinis in many forms, but haven't tried the Martinez yet. Now I can totally justify buying maraschino :P *puts Luxardo on birthday wish-list, just in case*

Plus, I have and love Campari.

*bes enormous Negroni fan*


Azrael wrote:And better maraschino (the Stock is $15/750mL).


Good instinct :) The lovely folks at eGullet recommend Luxardo if you like the funky notes, or Maraska if you don't. They're not fond of Stock.

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Azrael » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:50 am UTC

Amarantha wrote:
Azrael wrote:And better maraschino (the Stock is $15/750mL).
Good instinct :) The lovely folks at eGullet recommend Luxardo if you like the funky notes, or Maraska if you don't. They're not fond of Stock.
Except ... it's what I could find. :(

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Girl™ » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:23 pm UTC

Oddly, all I could find was Luxardo (and I had to go out of state for that :\), and I'm still getting used to it. It's some funky shit. Used sparingly, though, it's really interesting.

Azrael, have you tried Brix wine shop in Boston?
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Azrael » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:43 pm UTC

I'm planning a pilgrimage there Saturday - ostensibly for applejack, but probably for other stuff too.

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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby MotorToad » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:31 pm UTC

To briefly revisit the original topic (htf did I miss a booze thread?!?), alcohol/monetary unit is a pretty scary method if that's all you use. It should certainly be considered but if you're not considering the pleasure that you get from the flavor then you might want to step back and look at why you're drinking.

That said, I'm totally guilty of buying one beer over another because one might be 7% versus 5%, but it's a decision between two really good beers, like taking an IPA over a regular ale. BTW, Sierra Nevada's '08 Bigfoot Ale is almost 10% and it's only ~$2 more per six than regular ales. That's an alcohol bargain and an awesome beer to boot!

A few beers that I'll drink when money's tight are Yuengling, Modelo Especial (cans, please, it really is better than the bottles. Don't ask me why:)), and even Schlitz. Schlitz isn't exactly good beer, but it actually tastes like beer unlike the fizzy beerwater offered by the other mass producers.

It's always struck me as funny how people with less money to spend will buy a pint or so of some toxic liquor when buying a handle of decent bourbon or rum is cheaper. Locally I can get Jim Beam or Bacardi Select (the spiced black label stuff) in 1.75l for $20. So long as that's the case I'd never consider something undrinkable as an alternative.

Beer trivia for today: B*dw**ser was originally brought to market to appeal to women that didn't like the lagers available at the time. It's the original Girl's Beer. (No offense, GirlTM, I didn't make it up! :)). I don't know when they went to the rice recipe that is the present poison, but I doubt it's what they used it back then.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Mathmagic » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:16 pm UTC

I tried B*d for the first time last week... it was the second-worst beer I've had in my life. The first worst was Mountain Crest beer.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby Mr. Mack » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:19 pm UTC

MotorToad wrote:A few beers that I'll drink when money's tight are Yuengling, Modelo Especial (cans, please, it really is better than the bottles. Don't ask me why:)), and even Schlitz. Schlitz isn't exactly good beer, but it actually tastes like beer unlike the fizzy beerwater offered by the other mass producers.


Yuengling is awesome, which is probably why they don't sell it in Georgia.

I don't know why I neglected to post this link earlier. I guess because I didn't have the post count at the time to post links.

http://www.alcoholshopper.com/tables.php?table=all

The idea is to compile a master list that breaks down the prices of all alcoholic beverages according to price per ounce of alcohol and by US state (there isn't much for other countries).

Currently the list only covers a few states, but even if your state isn't listed it could still help as a general guide.
And it wouldn't hurt if you submitted some data.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby mosc » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:28 pm UTC

Yuengling is probably 2x more expensive than natural (nattie). They also make a nattie ice which is barely more money and has almost twice the alcohol. If you want cheap beer that gets you drunk, we always ended up with that.

I've out grown getting drunk though. That and I can't afford it because I drink so many Belgians.
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Re: Cost to %proof ratio.

Postby shinybaby » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:33 pm UTC

Cocktails: for me, cocktails are generally out. or a one-off at best. the sugar content is too high and i get hung over... :( though, i'd try again if GirlTM is mixing! it sounds like she's a pro!

Beer: i'm not the beer snob in my particular social circle, but i like a good beer. my current favourites are Creemore Springs and Mill St. Coffee Porter (a microbrew here in TO).

Martini: i tend to prefer gin martinis over the vodka variety, but (sorry!) i'm not a fan of Vermouth. the variant i enjoy is generally called a smokey (or burnt) martini and it swaps scotch for vermouth. i like it with a lemon twist! very, very nice. i don't mind putting this in the cocktail subset, if the martini enthusiasts out there find it too much of a stretch... :D

Scotch. yummy, yummy scotch. my favourite drink of all! this, unfortunately for the pocket book, cannot be cheap. i don't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money, but the $20 bottles scare me a little... i was at a house warming party and a cute guy offered to pour me a scotch. needless to say i was impressed and drunk enough to consider repaying him for his kindness with sexytimes... right up until he brought me a glass of Teachers. wow, did my pants stay on that night. :P
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