Borg vs. Zerg

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Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:21 am UTC

Who would win? Both are hive-minds, zerg being an actual hive mind, and borg just being interconnected.

I think Borg would win. Resistance being futile and all, and having technology to boot.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Berengal » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:14 am UTC

Zergling rush kekekekekekekekekekeke!

What would happen, should the two ever meet, is that eventually a zerg would be assimilated. What happens when a hive-mind individual is assimilated into another hive-mind, I don't know, but the likely scenarios would be:
  • The zerg would become a borg, losing it's zerg-mind. The borg would adapt to the zerg, and we would have borg-zergs. Borg-zergs >= zergs, so the borgs would win.
  • The zerg-mind is hierarchical while the borg-mind isn't. The borg-zerg would still obey it's zerg-superiors, but the borg would lose at least part of it's "free will" by adding an uncompromising member, possibly losing cohesion, or even become just another individual in the zerg brood.
  • The two would become incapacitated in a mental battle for control. Whoever gets uncorrupted reinforcements first would win, with me betting on the zergs since their broods don't automatically hive-mind with other broods, while the borg would probably do this.
  • The lowly mindless zerg would not have a mind to assimilate, so it would continue to be a zerg, but with some temporary biological oddities called nanites. It's immune system would eventually take care of them, or the zerg would die in the biological battle. The two fight it out classical style.
Should a classic battle commence, I would bet on the borg. They would adapt to zerg weaponry and smite them with righteous fury.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby segmentation fault » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:53 pm UTC

no matter who wins

we lose.




would be an epic battle though. with kerrigan leading the hive i think the zerg has an edge.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Xanthir » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:18 pm UTC

I go for Zerg merely because I loves them so much.

In the case of a zerg getting borged, I see one of two scenarios:

1) The zerg is cut from the Overmind, and is merely a wild creature now mind-linked to the Borg. As noted, it will either adapt to the nanites, overcome them, or die. Either way the Borg don't gain too much.

2) The zerg remains connected to the Overmind. An epic battle of mind-haxx0ring commences. I put my money on the Overmind for this, because it has actual experience controlling other hiveminds (the various cerebrates), while to the best of my knowledge the Borg merely overcome an individual's free will and then he merely receives orders from the Machine.

However, the Borg have uber-technology, which may overcome the biotech of the Zerg. Still, $20 on Zerg ftw.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Robin S » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:20 pm UTC

I think we would see a new species emerge. Each would try to assimilate the other, and the end result would be a hybrid superior to either of the originals.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Xanthir » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:37 pm UTC

Well, clearly. They both assimilate. Thus segfault's statement that we lose no matter what. It's just a question of who's on top, is all.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby McCaber » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:39 pm UTC

It's obviously the Tyranids.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:03 pm UTC

But assimilating the borg is just assimilating a bunch of hoomans and such that they already have, they can't really assimilate the technology that allows the borg to be. As for the zerglings being just wild animals, sure, but what happens when a cerebrate or queen or hell even an overlord gets assimilated? What if the overmind gets assimilated? That in itself is easy enough, since they have the technology to get past all the flying critters and such.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Robin S » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:08 pm UTC

There is no Overmind anymore, remember? It's just the Queen of Blades. And Zerg are perfectly capable of assimilating technology... have you seen the Infested Terran from the latest Starcraft II trailer?
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:11 pm UTC

Isn't this what that whole species 8472 plotline on Voyager was about?

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Robin S wrote:There is no Overmind anymore, remember? It's just the Queen of Blades. And Zerg are perfectly capable of assimilating technology... have you seen the Infested Terran from the latest Starcraft II trailer?

They can assimilate kerrigan too. They don't really infest the technology, otherwise they'd be capable of building infested SCVs and making everything the terrans can make. All they do is infest the people breeding areas of the command center, allowing them to manipulate the people's genes. The fact that they can fly it around is just the fact that they covered the entire thing with goop and can move the goop. The borg, however, assimilate technology AND biology.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:42 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Robin S wrote:There is no Overmind anymore, remember? It's just the Queen of Blades. And Zerg are perfectly capable of assimilating technology... have you seen the Infested Terran from the latest Starcraft II trailer?

They can assimilate kerrigan too. They don't really infest the technology, otherwise they'd be capable of building infested SCVs and making everything the terrans can make. All they do is infest the people breeding areas of the command center, allowing them to manipulate the people's genes. The fact that they can fly it around is just the fact that they covered the entire thing with goop and can move the goop. The borg, however, assimilate technology AND biology.


I miss the pre-fish borg that could only assimilate cultures/technology, not individuals.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby d3adf001 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

zerg have lurkers and defilers. zerg wins

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Robin S » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:26 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:They don't really infest the technology, otherwise they'd be capable of building infested SCVs and making everything the terrans can make. All they do is infest the people breeding areas of the command center, allowing them to manipulate the people's genes. The fact that they can fly it around is just the fact that they covered the entire thing with goop and can move the goop. The borg, however, assimilate technology AND biology.
I don't know... the recent trailer shows an entire colony being infested, not just the command centre. And according to a source that I don't remember which I recall as being reliable, the new-look Infested Terrans will have weapons rather than just exploding in people's faces.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby EvanED » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:56 pm UTC

It actually just shows barracks being infested... Blizzard could have just switched the building that is susceptible, considering the barracks makes more sense than the command center anyway.

(That said, I will point out that it apparently doesn't require the building to be in the red.)

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Robin S » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:07 pm UTC

Nope - the building at the top looks like an Engineering Bay to me. It's definitely not a Barracks.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Yakk » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:09 pm UTC

This has the usual sci-fi universe scale problems.

As far as I'm aware, the scale of the Startrek TNG universe technology is higher than the Starcraft universe. And as technology in Starcraft can slow down the zerg, then Startrek level technology would steamroll it.

If it turned out that the Zerg couldn't be safely assimilated, there is evidence that they would just sterilize.

...

Oh wait, are we talking about TNG "the entire Federation has problems against a single cube-ship" Borg, or Voyager "a single federation ship can kick their collective asses" Borg?
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby EvanED » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:29 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Oh wait, are we talking about TNG "the entire Federation has problems against a single cube-ship" Borg, or Voyager "a single federation ship can kick their collective asses" Borg?

As I'm quite sure that the latter is simply a figment of my information and didn't actually happen, I vote the former. ;-)

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:37 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Oh wait, are we talking about TNG "the entire Federation has problems against a single cube-ship" Borg, or Voyager "a single federation ship can kick their collective asses" Borg?

Cube, of course. Borg aren't cool if they're pussies. That'd be like zerg before it learned to assimilate other species. Hella gay.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby EvanED » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

Robin S wrote:Nope - the building at the top looks like an Engineering Bay to me. It's definitely not a Barracks.

Oh, I guess I was wrong about that. Never mind.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Kizyr » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:45 pm UTC

zenten wrote:Isn't this what that whole species 8472 plotline on Voyager was about?

That was the first thing I thought.

Weirdly enough, the Borg can be defeated by non-cybernetic biology that's evolved far enough. Hence all the problems with species 8472.

Reluctantly, I might have to put my money on the zerg. It might just be a matter of propagating faster than they can be assimilated, and then overrunning (kekekek) Borg cubes. KF
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:16 pm UTC

Kizyr wrote:
zenten wrote:Isn't this what that whole species 8472 plotline on Voyager was about?

That was the first thing I thought.

Weirdly enough, the Borg can be defeated by non-cybernetic biology that's evolved far enough. Hence all the problems with species 8472.

Reluctantly, I might have to put my money on the zerg. It might just be a matter of propagating faster than they can be assimilated, and then overrunning (kekekek) Borg cubes. KF

But how long would it take for the zerg to realize that? How long would it take for them to evolve to that point? Zerg don't really have natural selection as a benefactor anymore.

As for propagating faster, theres always sleepers. We have platinum that out bodies can't see. I'm sure the borg can make a capsule that the zerg body can't see, inplant it, and use it to get close to one of the larger cerebrates or something.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Yakk » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

Then all this talk about a sufficiently evolved biology? The borg are perfectly willing to sterilize a planet or lifeform that cannot be assimilated (re: Whoopi's character).

And sure, a virus could take out a single ship, if it wasn't delt with by sterilization: the information needed to avoid the attack would then propagate and be used by the other bajillion borg cubes.

To the Borg, a cube ship (capable of taking on entire fleets of ships, each of the ships in that fleet using weapons individually capable of causing ELE attacks on planets) is merely a fingernail. Burning one to learn about a new species is perfectly acceptable. It isn't as if they don't have plenty more where that came from.

In Star Trek, the Federation can sterilize planets using a single spaceship. In Star Craft, it takes work to take out a planet. And the Federation is at a scale well under the Borg energy usage...

Ie: this is a wrong scale problem.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:47 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Then all this talk about a sufficiently evolved biology? The borg are perfectly willing to sterilize a planet or lifeform that cannot be assimilated (re: Whoopi's character).

And sure, a virus could take out a single ship, if it wasn't delt with by sterilization: the information needed to avoid the attack would then propagate and be used by the other bajillion borg cubes.

To the Borg, a cube ship (capable of taking on entire fleets of ships, each of the ships in that fleet using weapons individually capable of causing ELE attacks on planets) is merely a fingernail. Burning one to learn about a new species is perfectly acceptable. It isn't as if they don't have plenty more where that came from.

In Star Trek, the Federation can sterilize planets using a single spaceship. In Star Craft, it takes work to take out a planet. And the Federation is at a scale well under the Borg energy usage...

Ie: this is a wrong scale problem.


Good point. In Star Craft nukes are horribly destructive weapons. In Star Trek they're ancient messy weapons that aren't worth using on infantry.

Even apart from the scale the Borg have that whole adaptive shield thingy. The Zerg would only get off a few shots before their weapons were useless on the Borg ships, and thus they couldn't even get into up close combat.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Kizyr » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:27 am UTC

Yakk wrote:In Star Trek, the Federation can sterilize planets using a single spaceship. In Star Craft, it takes work to take out a planet. And the Federation is at a scale well under the Borg energy usage...
Ie: this is a wrong scale problem.

While definitely true, since this debate is really just for fun, to have it in the first place I think you'd have to allow for some 'fuzziness' when it comes to scale. If you wanted to stick purely to technology scale, then, hell, the freakin' Pacleds could take out the Zerg. (Also, there was the bit about the Borg choosing not to assimilate the Kazon since they weren't worth it.)

So... the rest of this, I'm just gonna ignore scale. Otherwise there's no discussion.

The Reaper wrote:But how long would it take for the zerg to realize that? How long would it take for them to evolve to that point? Zerg don't really have natural selection as a benefactor anymore.

As for propagating faster, theres always sleepers. We have platinum that out bodies can't see. I'm sure the borg can make a capsule that the zerg body can't see, inplant it, and use it to get close to one of the larger cerebrates or something.

On the first point, I think the Zerg are already sufficiently advanced to put up one hell of a fight against the Borg--better than Species 8471. On the second... I hadn't considered that. Though, I think the Zergs' strategy will be to rush them before they have a chance to do anything.

zenten wrote:Even apart from the scale the Borg have that whole adaptive shield thingy. The Zerg would only get off a few shots before their weapons were useless on the Borg ships, and thus they couldn't even get into up close combat.

Hm, I seem to recall that their adaptive shields worked great with energy-based weapons, but not so much with ballistic ones (like the holographic tommy gun in First Contact). KF
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Yakk » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:07 am UTC

It worked after a finite number of kills. It just wasn't a defense worth bothering with initially. :)
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby noneedtonullify » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:03 pm UTC

I think I need to throw my support behind the zerg on this one for a few reasons:

Even if we don't take the assumption that the borg are scattered and destroyed after the end of voyager (and thereby its the kickass cubes from TNG), one cube still would not be enough to destroy all the zerg on its own. The borg would only dispatch one cube on whatever type of scouting mission first encountered the zerg, and this would, in my mind, be their downfall.
The zerg could stop one cube just with a hell of a lot of scourge. Besides, as far as I recall it, the borg are only good at adapting to projectile and energy weapons, but can't adapt to physical attacks (hence why klingons can kick a drones ass in a melee fight). While some zerg weapons are projectile, like the acid spores used by hydralisks, most are just really big claws and really big teeth. The borg wouldn't actually be able to adapt to this. Even if the borg could, the story behind the zerg is of an ever changing and adapting hive... so the zerg would just adapt to the borgs adaptations (if that makes sense).

My final point would be that yeah, the borg would try and assimilate a minor zerg creature (such as a zergling), but this would ultimately be their downfall. Once that synapse connection has been made between the zerg hive mind (whether the overmind or kerrigan) and the borg collective, the hive mind would just exert control over the entire collective. Moreso if the queen is dead (as in the end of Voyager). The borg would either have to become assimilated into the zerg hive mind, or break themselves from the collective, thus eliminating what makes them so powerful in the first place.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:27 pm UTC

Kizyr wrote:
zenten wrote:Even apart from the scale the Borg have that whole adaptive shield thingy. The Zerg would only get off a few shots before their weapons were useless on the Borg ships, and thus they couldn't even get into up close combat.

Hm, I seem to recall that their adaptive shields worked great with energy-based weapons, but not so much with ballistic ones (like the holographic tommy gun in First Contact). KF


Yes, but do you have any idea on what would be required to hit a Borg ship with a rail gun?

Although I guess that is just a scaling problem then.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Kizyr » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:07 pm UTC

zenten wrote:
Kizyr wrote:
zenten wrote:Even apart from the scale the Borg have that whole adaptive shield thingy. The Zerg would only get off a few shots before their weapons were useless on the Borg ships, and thus they couldn't even get into up close combat.

Hm, I seem to recall that their adaptive shields worked great with energy-based weapons, but not so much with ballistic ones (like the holographic tommy gun in First Contact). KF

Yes, but do you have any idea on what would be required to hit a Borg ship with a rail gun?
Although I guess that is just a scaling problem then.

I wasn't actually picturing any space-battles taking place, as in battles between ships. Just hand-to-hand stuff. So, yeah, I don't see the zerg ever being able to take on a cube from the outside.

The zerg would work better in close-quarters, so, they'd need to find some way of boarding the ship and taking it over from within. Once they get on board, it's pretty much over for the Borg. KF
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Yakk » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

The borg suck at hand-to-hand, because they don't care that much about it.

Own space, and you can smash organized resistance (or sterilize the planet if you cannot take out the ground).

On a planet they do invade, they expect geometric growth in the number of their troops. The enemy isn't capable of massing a force (as the Borg can just clean the area from orbit). Any attack that is reasonably effective and widespread gets adapted to and rendered useless (ie: if Klingons with swords become more than a nuisance, they can adapt to it). If it is similar to an attack seen before, it takes 3 or 4 tries to neutralize it. If it is an attack that strange (attacking using a sword, and being effective against super-strong borg?!) it might take a few more drones dead to make it worth the while (and who cares about a few 1000 drones dieing? Not the borg. They are easily replaced with the assimilated population of an entire planet (billions) up for grabs).

Zerg strategy is somewhat similar -- zerglings are disposable, they charge in and take out defenders. Except the individual borg expect to gain more troops from an medium-to-large scale engagement than they lose. Resistance against an exponential function really is futile.

If the Zerg are immune to Borgification and Assimilation, that simply changes the game from a geometric growth to a sterilization problem. Simply wipe clean the planets infested with Zerg down to the mantle. So now we have the Borg expanding at an exponential rate over Terran and (possibly) Protoss worlds, and the Zerg doing the same. Zerg can infest a Borg world and possibly render it useless to the Borg (assuming the Zerg hive can stand up to an entire planetary population fighting at better-than-terran-marine levels, and massive air superiority), while the Borg can slag a Zerg world and render it useless to the Zerg from orbit.

So the answer? In a fight of Borg vs Zerg, the Terrans and Protoss lose.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby BlackSails » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:21 am UTC

Yakk wrote:If the Zerg are immune to Borgification and Assimilation, that simply changes the game from a geometric growth to a sterilization problem. Simply wipe clean the planets infested with Zerg down to the mantle.


The protoss tried that. We know how that ends.

The Zerg beat the shit out of the Xel'Naga, which was a race far more advanced than the borg. (They can create entirely new species.) And thats before they absorbed any species from outside their native planet.

Battle would go as follows:
Borg cube gets pwned by scourges.

Borg come back with more cubes. Kerrigan lets some zerg get assimilated. Kerrigan asserts her will over the borg hive.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:57 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:The Zerg beat the shit out of the Xel'Naga, which was a race far more advanced than the borg. (They can create entirely new species.) And thats before they absorbed any species from outside their native planet.


The Borg have assimilated races that have created new species. They just have no use for such technology.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby BlackSails » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:16 am UTC

zenten wrote:
BlackSails wrote:The Zerg beat the shit out of the Xel'Naga, which was a race far more advanced than the borg. (They can create entirely new species.) And thats before they absorbed any species from outside their native planet.


The Borg have assimilated races that have created new species. They just have no use for such technology.


Not even close. Life was the plaything of the Xel'Naga. Psychic link between all members of a race? No problem. Conscious control over evolution? Ill have that ready by the end of the week. Vastly powerful hivemind that can reincarnate itself? Dont worry about it.

Anyway, the borg dont have vast psionic powers. The protoss just have a tiny fraction of what the Xel'Naga had.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:25 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:
zenten wrote:
BlackSails wrote:The Zerg beat the shit out of the Xel'Naga, which was a race far more advanced than the borg. (They can create entirely new species.) And thats before they absorbed any species from outside their native planet.


The Borg have assimilated races that have created new species. They just have no use for such technology.


Not even close. Life was the plaything of the Xel'Naga. Psychic link between all members of a race? No problem. Conscious control over evolution? Ill have that ready by the end of the week. Vastly powerful hivemind that can reincarnate itself? Dont worry about it.

Anyway, the borg dont have vast psionic powers. The protoss just have a tiny fraction of what the Xel'Naga had.


But neither do the Zerg have vast psychic powers, so I don't see this applying.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:49 am UTC

If the Borg assimilate the protoss, they get fancy powers too, yes? And thats in addition to direct control of the hive mind. Last I checked the overmind and kerrigan couldn't take actual direct control over the actions of the creature. They can make it attack, but they can't make it aim for weak points. All they can do is upgrade the armor and claws. Borg can go for weak points.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby BlackSails » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:12 pm UTC

zenten wrote:
But neither do the Zerg have vast psychic powers, so I don't see this applying.


Kerrigan does, and she is the Zerg.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:26 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
zenten wrote:
But neither do the Zerg have vast psychic powers, so I don't see this applying.


Kerrigan does, and she is the Zerg.


Unless you're talking about something from say SC 2, instead of SC 1 + Brood War I would have to disagree. Sure she can do storms and whatnot, but her ability to control minds isn't really better than the collective, the collective just needs a "hook" first.

noneedtonullify
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby noneedtonullify » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:15 pm UTC

I have to agree with some of these points while disagreeing with some too. Yeah, the zerg kicked the crap out of the xel'naga, and yeah the xel'naga are far more advanced than borg could hope to be... but the zerg did that by surprise. The xel'naga didn't even know they were under threat, and hence didn't fight back.

Of course, at the same time, I still don't think the borg would have much of a chance. On first view of the zerg, the borg would see nothing but unadvanced, barbaric creatures, with no technology to speak of. They would underestimate the zerg just as much as the xel'naga did... only there's more borg. Again, scaling issue. If you're dealing with a single battle, the borg will lose the first engagement. In the long run, they'll bring a lot more cubes and then there's a real war.

The zerg do have massive psionic powers... they're just devoted to keeping the hive coherent, not to direct assaults per se. Throughout the campaigns, kerrigan is able to exert control over not just other renegade zerg, but also over terran (such as duran), and protoss (the matriarch). She is doing this remotely, and without much effort. If a direct connection was made between the borg and her hive (by some zerg being assimilated), she would be able to exert control over the collective, with some effort. The difference between the borg and zerg hives is that the zerg hive is centralised (under the control of kerri or the overmind), while the borg are a collective operating together, with no transcending power behind them to fight off kerrigan's control. If you want to argue that kerri couldn't do it, the overmind surely could... again in the campaign, kerrigan acknowledges she couldn't possibly, synaptically and telepathically, fight against the overmind for control of the broods... if she couldn't, the borg wouldn't stand a chance.

The Reaper
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:02 pm UTC

noneedtonullify wrote:I have to agree with some of these points while disagreeing with some too. Yeah, the zerg kicked the crap out of the xel'naga, and yeah the xel'naga are far more advanced than borg could hope to be... but the zerg did that by surprise. The xel'naga didn't even know they were under threat, and hence didn't fight back.

xel'naga didn't have nearly as many anything. Advancement only takes you so far, before sheer numbers win, like when the zerg attacked them. Sheer numbers are on the borg side.

noneedtonullify wrote:Of course, at the same time, I still don't think the borg would have much of a chance. On first view of the zerg, the borg would see nothing but unadvanced, barbaric creatures, with no technology to speak of. They would underestimate the zerg just as much as the xel'naga did... only there's more borg. Again, scaling issue. If you're dealing with a single battle, the borg will lose the first engagement. In the long run, they'll bring a lot more cubes and then there's a real war.

Of course the borg would lose the first battle. They usually do, against a new foe. :\ However, losing 1 whole cube isn't much, considering how many they have.

noneedtonullify wrote:The zerg do have massive psionic powers... they're just devoted to keeping the hive coherent, not to direct assaults per se. Throughout the campaigns, kerrigan is able to exert control over not just other renegade zerg, but also over terran (such as duran), and protoss (the matriarch). She is doing this remotely, and without much effort. If a direct connection was made between the borg and her hive (by some zerg being assimilated), she would be able to exert control over the collective, with some effort. The difference between the borg and zerg hives is that the zerg hive is centralised (under the control of kerri or the overmind), while the borg are a collective operating together, with no transcending power behind them to fight off kerrigan's control. If you want to argue that kerri couldn't do it, the overmind surely could... again in the campaign, kerrigan acknowledges she couldn't possibly, synaptically and telepathically, fight against the overmind for control of the broods... if she couldn't, the borg wouldn't stand a chance.


Kerrigan would have to take over a majority of the borgs minds (otherwise the collective still rules the collective, being a mass majority), which she doesn't have the power to do, given sheer numbers. Keep in mind that the entire thing consists of seperate individuals, mechanically brought into the collective. Zerg require less effort to control because they are essentially wild animals, and so any decisions that go with their natures is easier to do. Killing, eating, not killing, etc. Doing complex mathematics isn't in the list. Even the overmind has problems controlling the whole swarm, hence the need for cerebrates, queens, and overlords. Taking over the entire borg collective would be an impossible task considering how large a cube is, the fact that you can have an entire brood in alot less space than that. As to whether the psionics can transfer from the biological material to the electronic components, thats a different question entirely.

The borg wouldn't have to fight the overmind for control. All they'd have to do is infect enough systems until the main was infected too, then they win. All it takes is for the creep that the overmind lives on to get infected with nanites, and then, fairly quickly, the overmind is down for the count.

Zerg immune systems fighting off nanites is just the borg not adapting the right way.

Species whatevernumberitis was just a plot quirk because noone beside technogeeks like ourselves like seeing the bad guy win.

noneedtonullify
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby noneedtonullify » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:10 pm UTC

Heh I agree about that (bad guys winning). This, of course, is bad guys vs. bad guys. The question about adapting though is one on both sides... the zerg evolve and adapt quickly to their new threats and obstacles as well... so it essentially comes down to can the zerg evolve new weapons and armour quicker then the borg can adapt and assimilate them. The more unlucky buggers that get caught in the way (such as terran or protoss, or ferengi just because it would be amusing to see them get tooled), the more for the zerg to draw off of to fuel their evolutions... and the more for the borg to assimilate into their attack force


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