Doctor Whom

[Masuri]

Arrrrrgh! I accidentally queued up the discs in the wrong order on Netflix. I got discs 4, 5, and 6 instead of 1, 2, and 3!

I had much watching planned for the weekend!

KAAAHHHHHNNNNN!!

[Dobblesworth]

Like most widely viewed shows in UK at the moment, I only hopped on the 'revamped' Dr. Who bandwagon fairly late. The series finale with John Simm was made of epoch win [geddit?], having followed Life on Mars with great enthusiasm.

From watching the preview trailer for Saturday's opener, I can't say I'm too keen on Catherine Tate. I don't think she's really gonna cut it as Tennant's companion as I will always see her as 'that annoying obnoxious redheaded Scottish grandmother'.

Quite interested about the Return of the Ood though.

[no-genius]

I try to ignore that. I didn't think she was too bad in the christmas special, but then I used to like her TV show. It was OK in a 'there's nothing better on' kinda way.

OOh, the Ood are back? The Ood, the ood, the ood is on fire

also, these are the Doctor who stuff thats been on DVD.

[Maseiken]

Wait, everytime I think of the Ood, I get them mixed up with the Juddoon (Can you blame me?)
Are the Ood those guys that worked for Satan? or the Space-Rhino Police coprs?

[Robin S]

The former. Apparently in that episode we will learn why they became a slave species.

[Maseiken]

Sweet!

[Nebuduck]

OHMYGODONEHOURTWENTYMINUTESUNTILNEWDRWHOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!

And on a slightly more legible note:

Wow, I was wondering when the new series started, so looked at the website and saw it was today! Awesome! I don't think Catherine Tate will be so great, but it'll be good to have the Dr back nonetheless - and who knows, maybe it'll work out OK. I have to say, the BBC has been so good to us - finale of Torchwood the day before the beginning of Dr Who. And what a finale it was. And what a beginning it will (hopefully) be! Yippee.

I am full of glee. I may be overly optimistic about it, but you'd better not burst this big cloud of fluffiness I'm in at the moment thinking that it's gonna be awesome.

Edit: Also, the forums clocks are apparently wrong - when I posted this, there was one hour twenty minutes to go (maybe 1 hour 17 mins, but meh) - but it says there was 1 hour 4 minutes.

[Of Negligible Mass]

I'm just as excited as you are! Half an hour now... Can't wait.

[Nebuduck]

20 minutes...

I've been watching all the Christmas specials on iPlayer. It's really got me in the mood...

[no-genius]

Edit: Also, the forums clocks are apparently wrong - when I posted this, there was one hour twenty minutes to go (maybe 1 hour 17 mins, but meh) - but it says there was 1 hour 4 minutes.

You are in DST, yes? You need to change the settings in your user thingy.

[Nebuduck]

"You've got a... a... hat bo..."

Well, it wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good. Glad to have you back, Doctor.


Edit: Ooooh... Madame Piper...

Edit No. 2: After having had a bit of time to digest that, my views on Catherine Tate... well, she's definitely something different. I think she'll take a much larger role in the episodes than the previous ones, who were pretty much just "stand around and do what the doctor tells them". Then again, I think the series has been heading in that direction for quite a while now. I think the main problem will be, does she steal the limelight from the Doctor? Also, she's a break from the whole "eye candy" idea of Dr Who's companion. Lets see what happens...

[Of Negligible Mass]

I agree. Tate may not be my cup of tea, but she'll definatly add an interesting dynamic to the show. More proactive as an assistant, more likely to stand up for herself from the start, and she's been investigating aliens solo for a while so...

Ms Piper's appearance is intriguing.
And they're going to Pompei on Volcano Day! Me thinks Mr Barrowman may be returning?

[Nebuduck]

I don't think we'll see Cap'n Jack this series - although, I may well have to eat my words. Why? Well, although we have time travel and suchlike, it seems like everything happens in chronological order within the main characters own time lines - indeed, were this not to be the case, big problems with the universe and suchlike could well ensue. Therefore, it seems that whatever happens next to Cap'n Jack will happen immediately after the events in the last Torchwood series, and immediately before the events in the next. Jack won't want to leave a team of two, so he can't go off with the doctor until recruiting more people. But people won't be recruited until the beginning of the next Torchwood. Therefore, Jack cannot go off with the Doctor for a while. Of course, I could well be completely wrong, and at 6:45 next Saturday I may be forced to eat my words as Mr Barrowman's smiling face appears on the screen in front of me.

I know this is slightly off-topic, but any views on who will next join Torchwood? I'd have my money on Martha Jones and Gwen's Hubbie (who's name I've just forgotten). Of course, I'm not sure that those two would work together - they need a new medic, and a new techie - you have a new medic with Martha, but no techie.

[Of Negligible Mass]

Have to say I missed the last Torchwood. Did half the team die? I heard half the team was gonna die... I guess half the team died if there's only two left...

I was just saying, in series one didn't Cap'n Jack specificly say he was at Pompei? In the freaky gas-mask-child-oh-god-the-horror-why?-no-please-no-don't-touch-me pair of episodes.

Edit: Apparently Barrowman has confirmed he's in Series 4 at some point (here) Haven't read it all but it a little way down he mentions it.

[Nebuduck]

Hey ho, I'm evidently wrong. We shall see.

I'll tell you who dies, but I'll spoiler it, in case you want to watch:

Spoiler:

Toshiko and Owen (as much as Owen can "die")

So, if Jack left, there would be two of them. It will spoil it for me if Jack is in Pompeii - it would introduce all kinds of questions - when Jack said he was in Pompeii, why didn't he tell the Doctor if he saw him there? Normally, with Dr Who we're quite happy to turn a blind eye to paradoxes, but this one would be glaringly obvious.

[Of Negligible Mass]

Well the Doctor's regenerated. So Jack wouldn't recognise him intially... Beyond that I agree the paradox seems strong once he knows the Doctor is the Doctor.

Intriguing.

[Robin S]

Jack met the Doctor in his latest incarnation at the end of the last series, so he should recognize him.

[Nebuduck]

I'm trying to recall if jack made a comment about the Dr's changed appearance at the end of the last series. If not, presumably he met him in Pompeii at a point before the end of the last series in Jack's personal time line, so recalled that he looked different. If so, then Pompeii must occur between the end of the last series and now in Jack's time line - which wouldn't fit in with torchwood, so there's no way Jack could be there.

[Robin S]

I'm trying to recall if jack made a comment about the Dr's changed appearance at the end of the last series.

He did. I think having it any other way would have been too confusing. I mean, having Jack inexplicably recognize the Doctor in the last series despite his changed appearance, and then wait a year to explain why? You'd have a lot of unhappy fans.

[Nebuduck]

Yeah, I thought he probably had. Well, I suppose that the most Jack can manage in Pompeii is to be a background figure who doesn't get a good look at the doctor and isn't really affected by him - anythin gelse would be to paradoxical.

[Of Negligible Mass]

I suppose so...

But it can't just be concidence that they mentioned volcano day then and now right?

[Robin S]

Guys - the Doctor et al. are going to be in Pompeii. Jack's buried under the future site of Cardiff. He's not dug up until 1901. How is he supposed to figure, even marginally, in that particular episode?

[Of Negligible Mass]

Well presumably it would be past Jack, from back when he was a time agent. So before he met the Doctor, took over Torchwood and got buried under half of Cardiff.

[no-genius]

Yeah, he's been working for Torchwood all that time. And don't forget the Blink episode - which should be a paradox, really

Spoiler:

the DVDs - Dr Who knows what to say because of transcripts of what he said.

Also, I caught some of Doctor Who Revealed (or whatever its called). Apparently Catherine Tates grandad (in show) is the guy in the Christmas episode. I didn't notice that. And about Billie Piper/Rose:

Spoiler:

I assume that the two parallel universes are collapsing together. Or, possibly they're using the same thing Torchwood used at the end of Series 2, but from the other side.

And did anyone else watch Doctor Who and the Daleks on BBC Four?

[Robin S]

And don't forget the Blink episode - which should be a paradox, really

Spoiler:

the DVDs - Dr Who knows what to say because of transcripts of what he said.

Presumably that sort of thing isn't a paradox in the Whoniverse, because time is "more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff".

Spoiler:

I assume that the two parallel universes are collapsing together. Or, possibly they're using the same thing Torchwood used at the end of Series 2, but from the other side.

I wouldn't count on either of those. Usually, when something weird like that happens, it ends up hinging on stuff that's revealed in the series finale. So I'd guess that our next major villain will be involved in some way.

[Nebuduck]

I thought Donna's grandpa might be the guy in the Christmas special but assumed that either I was wrong, and saying it would make me look an idiot, or that it was blatently obvious, and that saying it would make me look an idiot.

Spoiler:

I assume that the two parallel universes are collapsing together. Or, possibly they're using the same thing Torchwood used at the end of Series 2, but from the other side.

Your "Parallel universes collapsing" theory seems a little dodgy - I don't see how that'd happen - but the use of a similar device could be feasible. Although, I have a feeling torchwood in that parallel universe already had something like that - I'd need to watch those episodes again to confirm that, but c'est possible. If that is the case, though, I don't know why Rose didn't come back anyway - something abotu severing the link between the two universes? I guess we'll figure out.

And don't forget the Blink episode - which should be a paradox, really

I'm not sure if the blink episode is a paradox. A paradox would occur if something happened at one point in time, which affects things in the future, but actually in the past in that person's personal time line - for example, if Jack were to see the doctor in pompeii, he'd be bound to recognise him when he saw him next at the end of the world episode - but that would mean that the doctor in the past (in pompeii) was affecting something that had already happened in his personal timeline - when he met Jack then. It's complicated, but you can get your head around it.

A "time loop" where something causes itself, as it does in Blink, seems weird at first, but if you assume it's been going since time began, it's reasonable enough - it's only not reasonable if there were ever a time line where that time loop did not exist. Essentially, creating the loop in the first place would require a paradox, but it wouldn't constitute a paradox by simply existing.

Now, I've had a few beers, and a couple of glasses of wine, so it's quite possible that nothing I said makes any sense to any of you, but it's clear enough in my head, so I'll be happy to elaborate on it tomorrow morning.

[no-genius]

And don't forget the Blink episode - which should be a paradox, really

Spoiler:

the DVDs - Dr Who knows what to say because of transcripts of what he said.

Presumably that sort of thing isn't a paradox in the Whoniverse, because time is "more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff".

Spoiler:

I assume that the two parallel universes are collapsing together. Or, possibly they're using the same thing Torchwood used at the end of Series 2, but from the other side.

I wouldn't count on either of those. Usually, when something weird like that happens, it ends up hinging on stuff that's revealed in the series finale. So I'd guess that our next major villain will be involved in some way.

Yeah, but they have it all through the series - all they do in the finales is show you what it is. And I didn't say Blink is a paradox in Dr Who, only that it should be.

Spoiler:

the 'universes collapsing' was my first thought when I saw it, but the Torchwood thingy makes more sense. Or both are wrong.

[Robin S]

Actually, the first thought that came to mind when I saw Rose fade away at the end was how strongly it reminded me of the end of Doomsday, when the Doctor projected an image of himself into the parallel universe to talk to Rose, and then faded away.

[Nebuduck]

Actually, the first thought that came to mind when I saw Rose fade away at the end was how strongly it reminded me of the end of Doomsday, when the Doctor projected an image of himself into the parallel universe to talk to Rose, and then faded away.

But that transmission, I believe, relied on some kind of a link between the universes, which was breaking - hence why the doctor couldn't contact Rose at a later date - so, are we to assume that another such link may be forming/formed? Either naturally, by the universes coalescing, or by alternate or real Torchwood, or by some other means?

[Robin S]

My money's on "other means".

[no-genius]

My money's on "other means".

Are you going to make any specific predictions, you fraud you?

I'll tell Dawkins!

[Quasar]

I'm beginning to regret missing Torchwood series 2, sounds like there was a lot of important stuff in it... I enjoyed the first episode, and Tate surprised me by actually having some acting talent besides shouting inane catchphrases. I think I might be warming to her as the Doctor's companion. We'll see how next week goes.

[steewi]

Spoilers, people, Spoilers! Dangit, I could work out pretty easily what's coming up for Torchwood 2.13 with the 'cryptic references'.

(note: mock annoyance - I'm annoyed, but not enough to be truly angry).

Still on a cloud from watching three episodes of Torchwood last week.

[Dobblesworth]

My thoughts on the new series opener:

Spoiler:

- I hadn't seen the Tate Christmas specials, so I don't fully know that backstory or have anything to judge the new one off, but S4 will certainly have a different Doctor-Companion chemistry
- Quite a bit of slapstick in last weekend's venture, specifically the miming through plate glass windows
- Oh go on, shoot the journalist! The Observer isn't that great a newspaper anyway... [Yes she did irk me a bit towards the end]
- I sense a StarTrek / traditional Doctor Who lore retcon and/or laws of physics manipulation in the works with Rose Tyler coming back. Can't see where another gap in the universes could turn up, or where she could obtain the power equivalent to a dying star to project herself onto 'our' side.
- Cap'n Jack SparrowHarkness will probably make a return trip this series, but I don't think it will be as soon as episode 2.

[pemcat]

Could Donna touch Rose? I can't remember. That would contradict the projection theory, if so. *goes to find somewhere to check*

*edit* no, you don't see her touching her.

[Nebuduck]

Oooh, 6:25 to go. I'm getting excited already...

I'll get some Italian wine, and some pasta, and sit in front of the TV loving every minute of it...

(note: the forum clock is still saying 11:33, while my PC is saying 12:19. This is evidently not just a discrepancy due to BST, (which I really must fix soon). I assume the problem is isolated to me, though. It's not that I really care that much about it...)

Edit: OK, I won't double post, but that was pretty good. Again, not great, but pretty good. Can't wait for the next one - I have the feeling that that'll be perfect Dr Who.

Spoiler:

So, I loved some moments in there - the whole water pistol thing and suchlike. I don't think Tate worked badly with that, though I could get pissed off at her headstrongness in a bit. I wasn't so sure about the market stall guy - it just seemed weird to have such a strong London accent. All in all, though, pretty good.

[cathrl]

That was great!

I suspect you have to be of a certain age to get the full coffee-spitting "they're doing a crossover with WHAT???" effect, though. While I know Caecilius was a real person, I understand his wife and son weren't.

(Translation for the not-British or those who never suffered through secondary school Latin lessons: the family in this episode is the same as that featured in a set of Latin student readers intended for 11-14 year olds in the UK. Don't know if they still exist - I learnt Latin from them a good 25 years ago. But there wasn't a daughter in the books. Or a cool blue box or any of the other things in the episode. Latin lessons might have been a whole lot more fun if there had been.)

[scowdich]

I really enjoyed this episode, particularly had a little chuckle at the end.

Also, would I not be the only one entirely thrilled if David Tennant (or someone dressed like him) showed up at the LHC opening with a worried look?

[Nebuduck]

It'd be that much more amusing if we could find someone who looked like a young Tom Baker.

[Of Negligible Mass]

Also, would I not be the only one entirely thrilled if David Tennant (or someone dressed like him) showed up at the LHC opening with a worried look?

SWEET LORD YES!

Episode 2: Quite nice. Tate grated a little with me, but I knew she would.

No Barrowman though, so I wonder why they bothered with the volcano day reference...

Next week's episode looks to be made of win, although it'll be interesting to see why the Ood are going crazy sans Lucifer.

Negligible