xkcd

by **Matt** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:25 am UTC

Right now I've got a bottle of Boodles I'm thoroughly enjoying, I'll keep Broker's in mind if I can find it. I'm familiar enough with Hendricks, and 209 and Junipero are just far too top-dollar.

Azrael: If you find a source for 100-proof bonded Laird, you must contact me posthaste. My bottle of blended is low and I can't bear to buy another knowing that such a product exists and is readily available elsewhere.

Also: anybody notice that the Haus Alpenz site now has listings not only for Taylor Velvet Falernum and a Trinidad rum, but also PIMENTO DRAM?!?!?!

by **Amarantha** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:09 am UTC

Matt wrote:Yeah, Aviations and Blue Moons are all the same basic drink...

And, having read eGullet's Aviation thread, I totally should have known that :oops:

Matt wrote:PIMENTO DRAM?!?!?!

I guess we can safely assume that you've read eGullet's thread about that

Do you post over there, or just lurk?

by **Girl™** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:31 am UTC

STOP READING MY MIND FOR SERIOUS, GUYS.

Azrael wrote:Also: Marconi Wireless is sorta lame with regular Laird's. I think it needs the 100 proof bonded stuff.

I... think I may have picked that up entirely by accident. The bottle is different, but it says it's 100-proof bottled-in-bond apple brandy. Blended or not, it's quite tasty. And makes a damn nice Marconi Wireless.

Matt wrote:Right now I've got a bottle of Boodles I'm thoroughly enjoying, I'll keep Broker's in mind if I can find it. I'm familiar enough with Hendricks, and 209 and Junipero are just far too top-dollar.

A note of warning: Broker's is a nice solid gin, but really strong all around. I like it in martinis, but it tends to take over other drinks. I haven't tried Boodles. How does it compare to Plymouth?

Matt wrote:Also: anybody notice that the Haus Alpenz site now has listings not only for Taylor Velvet Falernum and a Trinidad rum, but also PIMENTO DRAM?!?!?!

You mean I don't have to spend four months making it myself with acceptable-at-best results? Sweet.

by **Matt** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:30 am UTC

Girl™ wrote:A note of warning: Broker's is a nice solid gin, but really strong all around. I like it in martinis, but it tends to take over other drinks. I haven't tried Boodles. How does it compare to Plymouth?

Boodles is classic London Dry, so it's going to be not much like Plymouth and more like, well, what most people think gin is. It's way gentle compared to what you seem to say Broker's is like, I like it a lot. Now I need to find a place that stocks it; I bought these bottles in St. Croix (where amazing rum is 5 bucks a handle and Glenlivet is 15 a fifth).

Oh, and find a way to get some Bonded Laird to me with that Peychaud's offer pl0x

Amarantha wrote:Do you post over there, or just lurk?

Just lurk, I actually hadn't seen their take on the Alpenz Dram yet. My buddy bought their Young Pine Fruit Liqueur, apparently it's what could be expected.

by **Azrael** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:53 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:
Azrael wrote:Also: Marconi Wireless is sorta lame with regular Laird's. I think it needs the 100 proof bonded stuff.

I... think I may have picked that up entirely by accident. The bottle is different, but it says it's 100-proof bottled-in-bond apple brandy. Blended or not, it's quite tasty. And makes a damn nice Marconi Wireless.

Lucky you! Laird is based in Virginia, so I guess it makes sense you'd find a better selection.

by **Girl™** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:26 pm UTC

A hasty bit of googling tells me that what I picked up (Captian Applejack) is actually identical to the standard Laird's bonded. It's just sold under a different label for us rednecks in Virginia and NC. It's only aged 3 or 4 years, though. For some reason, I can't find the Laird's 7 year down here. Weird. Do you want me to bring it when we come up, Azrael?

Matt wrote:Oh, and find a way to get some Bonded Laird to me with that Peychaud's offer pl0x

Huh. How to manage that without running afoul of postal regulations, I am not sure. Bitters aren't regulated like liquor, so you can mail them with impunity. But 100-proof apple whiskey might be frowned upon. D:

by **psykx** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:53 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
I love how particular your are about only using Cointreau ... but then call out crap tequila.

I have tried loads of triple secs, but very few tequila's can anybody recommend some good ones?

by **Azrael** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:04 pm UTC

Lesson #1 - Knowing tequilas (Abridged).

Tequila comes from distilling the blue agave, a plant horticulturally similar to the aloe and yucca plant. To be labeled as 'Tequila' it must be distilled in recognized areas of Mexico from at least 51% blue agave spirits. Less expensive tequilas are typically only 51% blue agave and fill out the spirit using neutral spirits distilled from grain or sugar cane.

There are two 'types':
:arrow:

Mixed: Not 100% blue agave, filled out with other crap.
:arrow:

de Agave or 100% agave: Pretty self-explanatory.

And four 'varieties':
:arrow:

Blanco: Unaged tequila
:arrow:

Reposado: Rested between 2 and 12 months in oak barrels
:arrow:

Anejo: Rested between 1 and 3 years in oak barrels
:arrow:

and evidently Maduro, too: Rested at least 3 years in oak barrels.

Now, Lesson #2 - Acceptable mixed tequilas:

:arrow:

Sauza blanco
:arrow:

El Jimador (Herradura's mixed offering)
:!:

NOT Cuervo. Not of any sort. Nein. Nunca. BAD
:?:

Why not any 'Gold' tequilas? 'Cause the gold comes from artificial coloring and/or caramel flavorings. Screw that.

Use these in applications where you can't really tell the difference in flavor, or for people who just don't know better. I.e. a jug of margaritas for your friends.

Lesson #3 - Recommended 100% agave tequilas (limited to the <$50 range):

:arrow:

Corralejo

Corazon

Gran Centario
:arrow:

Don Julio

Herradura (My personal favorite)
:arrow:

Milagro

I understand the Sauza Hornitos and Tres Generaciones lines are pretty good too.

:!:

NOT Patron - Yeah, yeah. It's trendy. The bar has a cute Patron bottle illuminator. Great.
:!:

NOT Cabo-Wabo - soooooo, top shelf at crappy chain restaurants? OOOO!

All of those will have blanco, reposado and anejo varities. Use them according to your own taste. Personally, if I'm adding any lime juice at all, I'll use blanco because it has a nice bite. Otherwise I use reposado. I don't bother with anejo, because if I wanted my spirit to be that oaky, I'll just bust out the small batch bourbon.

by **Chip** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:37 pm UTC

Anything with Grenadine in it. mainly Tequila Sunrise:
Tequila, Orange Juice and Grenadine

by **micco** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:08 pm UTC

Prairie Dog anyone?

What you`ll need:
Splash of tabasco (about 2cl)
4cl tequila

This is one spicy drink.

by **Matt** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:44 am UTC

Chip wrote:Anything with Grenadine in it. mainly Tequila Sunrise:
Tequila, Orange Juice and Grenadine

Oh, chiming in with something interesting: there is no longer any reason to buy Rose's grenadine ever again.

Buy a small bottle of Pom Wonderful or other 100% pomegranate juice, reduce it by half over the stove, dissolve an equal amount of sugar in, haphazardly dump some red food coloring in there if you like it to turn drinks red, and chill. Grenadine is supposed to be made from pomegranates; now you can find out what it's supposed to taste like.

Too lazy to cook juice for 10 minutes? Companies like Stirrings, Sonoma Syrup, and various others make grenadines that actually contain pomegranate, and are available at fine liquor retailers and some enlightened food markets.

micco wrote:Splash of tabasco (about 2cl)
4cl tequila

Huuurgh.

Azrael wrote:Lesson #1 - Knowing tequilas (Abridged).

That was very well done, pretty much the same diatribe I roll out when somebody mentions Cuervo Gold. Like I said before, Sauza expanded the Hornitos line to include blanco and anejo offerings; the reposado was my favorite budget tequila for a time, so I'm looking forward to trying the others and seeing whether they deserve a dedicated spot in the budget homebar. Conmemorativo was Sauza's budget anejo until now, it's about as good as mixtos get.

by **Amarantha** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:50 am UTC

sheol got me some Luxardo maraschino for my birthday, so I had my first home-made Aviation (sadly, CdV-less for now). It wasn't bad, but a bit too lemon-juice-y. I still have trouble with balance, and I find lemon juice to be the most difficult ingredient to estimate.

On a brighter note, I also picked up some Cointreau with a voucher my sister sent me, so I made my first at-home Sidecar. I kept the lemon juice problem in mind, so it wasn't too out-of-balance, although I might use a tiny bit less next time. Overall, it was very, very nice. It'd want to be, considering the only cognac I had handy was Hennessy XO Grand Champagne

I don't feel bad about using it in cocktails, because good as it is, my love of whisky means I don't drink the brandy as much as it deserves, and it's going to get old and stale if I don't start using it. I hope I don't become too fond of these, because it could become an expensive habit...

by **Girl™** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:09 pm UTC

Amarantha wrote:sheol got me some Luxardo maraschino for my birthday, so I had my first home-made Aviation (sadly, CdV-less for now). It wasn't bad, but a bit too lemon-juice-y. I still have trouble with balance, and I find lemon juice to be the most difficult ingredient to estimate.

How do you like the Luxrado? I found it a little off-putting, but I'm trying to find ways to use it effectively. A dash does add a really interesting note to a lot of drinks.

Amarantha wrote:On a brighter note, I also picked up some Cointreau with a voucher my sister sent me, so I made my first at-home Sidecar. I kept the lemon juice problem in mind, so it wasn't too out-of-balance, although I might use a tiny bit less next time. Overall, it was very, very nice. It'd want to be, considering the only cognac I had handy was Hennessy XO Grand Champagne I don't feel bad about using it in cocktails, because good as it is, my love of whisky means I don't drink the brandy as much as it deserves, and it's going to get old and stale if I don't start using it. I hope I don't become too fond of these, because it could become an expensive habit...

Gah, I need to break down and pony up the cash for real Cointreau again. There's just no substitute. :\ I have to admit that I've never had a Sidecar, mostly because Cointreau is bloody expensive and I don't know very much about cognac. When I can afford another bottle of Cointreau, I should try that to use up that Courvoisier VSOP I have hanging around. (Yes, I know it's not very good. But it was free and I'm sure I can find something worthwhile to use it for...)

Speaking of using things up: Bärenjäger. Jordan got it and mostly just uses it in sickly-sweet liqueur mixes. I can't find a thing to do with it. I tried using it in place of the honey in a Bee's Knees, but it was pretty nauseating. The Applejack variation might be decent, but there's no telling. Is this shit a lost cause?

by **Azrael** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:04 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:... When I can afford another bottle of Cointreau, I should try that to use up that Courvoisier VSOP I have hanging around. (Yes, I know it's not very good. But it was free and I'm sure I can find something worthwhile to use it for...)

It might be heresy, but I stock VS. I typically use it for congnac-cream sauces or for cocktails. Perhaps if I was of the mind to drink it straight, I would understand (but probably not actually justify) spending twice as much on a higher quality.

Speaking of using things up: Bärenjäger ... Is this shit a lost cause?[/quote]No booze is a lot cause if a SO will drink it. I have mango flavored rum and raspberry Smirnoff. Sure, I pretend they aren't in the cabinet, but ... they are.

by **Girl™** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:45 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:It might be heresy, but I stock VS. I typically use it for congnac-cream sauces or for cocktails. Perhaps if I was of the mind to drink it straight, I would understand (but probably not actually justify) spending twice as much on a higher quality.

Fair enough! I don't know much about cognac, and I wasn't terribly impressed with the Courvoisier straight, so I just figured, "Huh, yeah, they were right about this." I've used it in a couple of cocktails and found it fairly agreeable but not impressive.

Azrael wrote:No booze is a lot cause if a SO will drink it. I have mango flavored rum and raspberry Smirnoff. Sure, I pretend they aren't in the cabinet, but ... they are.

Hahah, fair enough. He's gone off carbs, though, and I've run out of room in the liquor cabinet. :O Damn you, boy!

by **Matt** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:13 pm UTC

I'm not a big cognac drinker either, and as such I can't justify spending big dollar on sipping varieties. On the other hand, I can't find any redeeming qualities to the big three (courvoisier, remy martin, hennessy) VS offerings over no-name brands to justify the markup, especially if I'm gonna throw it in a sidecar.

by **Amarantha** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:17 am UTC

I like the Luxardo

*bes fond of funk* I shall try it next in a Martinez.

I got lucky with the Hennessy XO - it was duty free in Thailand, so marked waaay down

I wouldn't be able to justify buying it here inna shop. Therefore, when it runs out I shall have to try a VS or possibly VSOP and just hope I haven't been spoilt for lesser brandy :mrgreen:

I had my first Sidecar at a restaurant - that's how I usually try cocktails to decide if I like them well enough to buy the ingredients for myself.

by **Belial** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:29 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:Hahah, fair enough. He's gone off carbs, though, and I've run out of room in the liquor cabinet. :O Damn you, boy!

Learn to like sugar, freak. Barenjager is delicious if you don't overdo it (like I did at that one party...jesus christ, that cocktail was like a diabetic coma in a glass).

Fuck, now I want some barenjager. Or mead.

One more week.

by **Azrael** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:53 am UTC

NEW AWESOME THING!

Well, not very new, but really awesome. Agave nectar (syrup). Inspired by several sources I went searching for the stuff at my local Whole Foods. For my version there was no mezcal and I used Fee's Orange bitters.

Good. Stuff.

by **Bakemaster** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:56 pm UTC

I know we have several aviation fans here, so I took special notice of this recent Weekly Dig article (and have just now been able to dig my way through to the Food forum to post it):

Your gullet can gallop briskly through the last century with the Evolution of Aviation ($15) at No. 9 Park [9 Park St., Boston. 617.742.9991. http://www.no9park.com ]. The drink arrives as three miniature glasses representing the cocktail's historical incarnations from the years 1916, 1948 and 2003. Principle bartender Ryan McGrale runs down the variance: 1916 ("earliest conception of this particular drink") has gin, lemon juice, maraschino liqueur and crème de violette; as crè��violette became unavailable, the mid-century version omits it, with the lemon juice giving "a more puckery, sour, acidic bite to it;" and the newest (and most commonly practiced) incarnation ups the percentage of maraschino, balancing the tartness. With each sip, you can vicariously sense the American palate evolve in kind.i/quote/

The full article, not very long, also mentions places that do similar things with the manhattan and the martini.

In other news, Sarah and I were experimenting with some liquor that my roommates left lying around, and I made something that I found quite tasty:
1 oz lime juice
1.5 oz tequila
1.5 oz midori
4 oz raspberry-lime seltzer

It was too sour initially; not knowing quite how to deal with that (and having gone through a whiskey sour and a vanilla rum and coke beforehand), I just added a teaspoon or two of granulated sugar. So, experts: what should I have done?

by **Amarantha** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:48 am UTC

Adding sugar sounds about right. Sours are pretty much all variations onna theme of spirit+citrus+sugar.

by **Bakemaster** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:10 pm UTC

Pros/cons of granulated sugar vs. simple syrup?

by **PictureSarah** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:24 pm UTC

I'm not a cocktail expert (obviously. you know this.), but I think simple syrup is just granulated sugar dissolved into hot water and then chilled. The only difference it would make to use simple syrup instead of sugar is that you don't have to worry about dissolving the sugar into the drink, and you're more likely to get sweetness distributed evenly through the drink. Also, I suppose the addition of more water might weaken the drink a little bit with simple syrup.

by **Azrael** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:52 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:In other news, Sarah and I were experimenting with some liquor that my roommates left lying around, and I made something that I found quite tasty:
1 oz lime juice
1.5 oz tequila
1.5 oz midori
4 oz raspberry-lime seltzer

It was too sour initially; not knowing quite how to deal with that (and having gone through a whiskey sour and a vanilla rum and coke beforehand), I just added a teaspoon or two of granulated sugar. So, experts: what should I have done?

Well, since there's tequila in there, agave nectar would've been a good choice. It's like corn syrup, but made from the agave instead. Significantly sweeter than simple syrup, so it wouldn't take much. You can find the stuff at Whole Foods(esque) stores for about $5 for a 12(ish) oz. bottle.

by **Amarantha** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:51 pm UTC

Ya, what they said

Some recipes will call for granulated sugar because eg you might be muddling fruit or mint and thus it helps grind out the juice, or because the drink is designed to keep getting sweeter as the sugar slowly dissolves. But when it doesn't specify, I tend to use simple, because it's easy, and I'm lazy :mrgreen:

by **GonzoMcFonzo** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:45 pm UTC

I have a question, and this seems like the place to ask. When, in gods' name, did the meaning of Martini change from "Gin with a touch of vermouth" to "Vodka and olives" if you're lucky or "something that looks and tastes like kool-ade only sweeter" if you're not? I've had to teach more than one bartender how to mix a martini :evil:

Has anyone else ever had ths problem?

by **Azrael** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:32 pm UTC

It's rampant, and it's been happening long enough that I've run out of ire over it (it didn't take long). The trend has been discussed to have started immediately following the margarita explosion of the early 1990s.

Although the footings for a martini to retain it's name, but have a vodka base were built in the 1950s. Even if they're "supposed" to be called Bradfords or Kangaroos.

by **Matt** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:08 pm UTC

Azrael, Bakemaster, we should go drink a bunch of tiny aviations, huh?

If it were up to me, any drink called a martini would be required to consist solely of a spirit, a vermouth, and the option of bitters or garnish. But then a Manhattan could become the Manhattan Martini, and that would be a shame.

I'm no longer bitter about every new vodka based swill being called something-martini, but I am quite annoyed when bartenders don't know what "served up" means and ask me whether I want my Sidecar "as a martini". No glass of brandy with an olive for me, thanks.

by **parsonsb** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:47 pm UTC

my friend and I made a drink the other night that we named Hell(since the farther down you went the worse it was)

i don't remember the proportions but it was a a small plastic cup full of orange juice vodka rum and kaluha

by **Amarantha** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:17 am UTC

Q. What do you call 3/4 shot lemon juice, 1 shot whisky and 1 shot Campari?
A. I don't know either, but I just drank it.

I've been craving Campari since I replenished my stash, and kinda felt like a whisky cocktail, and am unwell with a head cold, and had a zested lemon that needed juicing, so ya, the thing was born, and it was lovely

Maybe I should call it like "Cold craving" or something. But that doesn't sound very nice.

Also, any time I invent a cocktail with a simple combination of simple ingredients, I wonder if it's already been done...

by **zenten** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:39 am UTC

I would like to point out the wonders of spicy Clamato and vermouth.

by **rrwoods** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:54 pm UTC

This isn't really a "cocktail", but it's a mixed drink and I can't see myself starting a new thread for it.

"Dark And Stormy". Ginger beer and dark rum in a tall glass over a little ice. Mix to taste. I think the one I had was 3/4 ginger beer 1/4 rum.

by **Matt** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

rrwoods wrote:This isn't really a "cocktail", but it's a mixed drink and I can't see myself starting a new thread for it.

"Dark And Stormy". Ginger beer and dark rum in a tall glass over a little ice. Mix to taste. I think the one I had was 3/4 ginger beer 1/4 rum.

It's old enough that it counts, it's a real classic. What respective ingredients did you use, both ginger beer and dark rums are often wildly different brand to brand

by **micco** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

A bar in the city I used to go to school at had some strange vodka cocktails. There was vodka with bluecheese, vodka with garlic, vodka with chocolate, vodka with olives and oregano, just to name few.

by **backslash** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:44 pm UTC

great thread! I was worried when it started out all sweet drinks, but you guys salvaged it. ;o) For all you "Russian dot-dot-dot" drinkers who like the sweet stuff: Russian Quaalude. FTW. I was a bartender in NYC for a while, and I swore if I EVER heard someone order an ice-cream based drink again I would slap them. (I have matured and mellowed now, Moo--drink what you like.

)

I went on a huge bourbon kick about two years ago (was doing a show called Long Day's Journey Into Night and wrote it off as "character research"--heh). It all started because I wanted to know what Bonded Bourbon was. Wild Turkey has one called Rare Breed that I loved. Also tried Knob Creek, Woodfood Reserve, and Maker's. You mentioned bourbon earlier, Azrael--what's your pleasure?

by **EsotericWombat** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:53 pm UTC

A couple of cocktails I've come up with

Cyanide:

2 1/2 oz vodka
1/2 oz ammeretto
2 dashes bitters

(as of yet unnamed- (help please?)

2 oz Applejack (or similar 100ish proof apple brandy)
1 oz gin (I was using Bombay Dry)
2 dashes bitters
squirt of lime

Also, I've discovered that gin and apple cider go extremely well together. Both as a highball type drink (shot of gin over ice with apple cider to cover, garnished with a cinnamon stick, which Cat and I decided was to be called an October Smoke) and if you're lacking a lime, adding a splash to a gin and tonic works as well.

by **rrwoods** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:35 pm UTC

Matt wrote:What respective ingredients did you use, both ginger beer and dark rums are often wildly different brand to brand

I'm not sure; I ordered it at a restaurant. I'll have to ask next time I order it there. I *think* the ginger beer was Stewart's (do they make a ginger beer?).

by **Azrael** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:46 pm UTC

probably with Gosling Black Seal, too.

by **EsotericWombat** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:35 am UTC

So I was talking with Andrew (Sophy's boyfriend) and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what to call all of those things that they call Martinis but aren't. All of those other things that are shaken over ice, consisting of mostly spirit and one or more liqueurs, and without bitters.

by **Amarantha** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:52 am UTC

EsotericWombat wrote:So I was talking with Andrew (Sophy's boyfriend) and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what to call all of those things that they call Martinis but aren't. All of those other things that are shaken over ice, consisting of mostly spirit and one or more liqueurs, and without bitters.

Er, seriously?

"Cocktails."

:mrgreen:

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