Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)

[JayDee]

All I can really say about the movie that hasn't been said before is, you kind of have to be familiar with the theories of Erich Von Daniken to not walk away from the movie, scratching your head.

I don't know about that. Thinking about Von Daniken just made me laugh harder at the movie.

[Mr. Beck]

All I can really say about the movie that hasn't been said before is, you kind of have to be familiar with the theories of Erich Von Daniken to not walk away from the movie, scratching your head.

[Al Creed]

All I can really say about the movie that hasn't been said before is, you kind of have to be familiar with the theories of Erich Von Daniken to not walk away from the movie, scratching your head.

I don't know about that. Thinking about Von Daniken just made me laugh harder at the movie.

Well, you have to admit, knowing about Von Daniken made the movie more fun to laugh at, right?

[SpitValve]

So von Daniken wrote about alien influence on early cultures on Earth? You don't really need to know about him to follow the plot: it's been a science fiction cliche for ages. Everything from 2001: A Space Odyssey to Judge Anderson (Judge Dredd spin-off) to Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders (LucasArts Graphic Adventure) to Stargate to name but a few.

[Gunfingers]

Yeah, but this guy had the opportunity to name drop something obscure to make himself sound smart.

[22/7]

And as many many many people have pointed out, none of the sequels (or two sequels and a prequel if you want to be technical) measure up to Raiders anyhow, as it's just a classic. E];)

I disagree. Last Crusade was very good, and I'd put it on par with the first one. I'm not sure I'd say it was better, but I'd say it was at least playing in the same league.

[Al Creed]

Yeah, but this guy had the opportunity to name drop something obscure to make himself sound smart.

Damn right, and I pounced upon it like a starved Puma!

[Gunfingers]

Puma

...You made that up.


Now who's being obscure?

Hint: it's me!

[Al Creed]

Puma

...You made that up.


Now who's being obscure?

Hint: it's me!

I know when I've been bested. I congratulate you, good sir!

Also, about Indy 4, I think one of the little things that didn't make this movie great was the fact that Indiana Jones wasn't able to kill a character played by Pat Roach in a bloody and gruesome manner.

[Okita]

The movie didn't just jump the shark.... it had a shark on a shark riding jet ski's jumping over a shark... and they're all ninjas.

I guess I enjoyed maybe 40-60% of the movie when there wasn't an attacking monkey "friends of nature" thing going on or Greaser turned Tarzan.

I can suspend a great deal of my belief for aliens, for the 3 waterfall thing, for swordfighting on top of cars... but not all at the same time especially if you throw in monkeys.

Let's just step back here and look at the ending:

Spoiler:

An alien skeleton comes to life and merges with a roomful of others to get its skin and organs back, then El Dorado turns into a giant flying saucer and goes into an alternate universe. And again.... Greaser Tarzan attacking with monkeys.

[SpitValve]

You forgot the cgi gophers and when they nuked the fridge

[backslash]

Also, about Indy 4, I think one of the little things that didn't make this movie great was the fact that Indiana Jones wasn't able to kill a character played by Pat Roach in a bloody and gruesome manner.

Yes! It's part of the formula--I went to see it first without the kids because they always--always--end with something gruesome (exploding heads, rapidly aging a couple thousand years, etc.). But alas--no. Just a ... wait.

Was that a

Spoiler:

WEDDING?!?

shit.

[22/7]

The movie didn't just jump the shark.... it had a shark on a shark riding jet ski's jumping over a shark... and they're all ninjas.

I guess I enjoyed maybe 40-60% of the movie when there wasn't an attacking monkey "friends of nature" thing going on or Greaser turned Tarzan.

I can suspend a great deal of my belief for aliens, for the 3 waterfall thing, for swordfighting on top of cars... but not all at the same time especially if you throw in monkeys.

Let's just step back here and look at the ending:

Spoiler:

An alien skeleton comes to life and merges with a roomful of others to get its skin and organs back, then El Dorado turns into a giant flying saucer and goes into an alternate universe. And again.... Greaser Tarzan attacking with monkeys.

But that's just it, you should suspend your disbelief for the aliens in the same way you would for the Ark or the stones or the Grail. What you shouldn't have to do is suspend your disbelief for the stunts, especially as many times as 4 required.

[H.E.L.e.N.]

Yes! It's part of the formula--I went to see it first without the kids because they always--always--end with something gruesome (exploding heads, rapidly aging a couple thousand years, etc.). But alas--no.

Spoiler:

Disintegrating Cate Blanchett just felt like an homage to those other endings.

[Okita]

But that's just it, you should suspend your disbelief for the aliens in the same way you would for the Ark or the stones or the Grail. What you shouldn't have to do is suspend your disbelief for the stunts, especially as many times as 4 required.

Um, that was my point... Or at least the point I wanted to make.

[22/7]

Ok.

Spoiler:

I was just saying that when you said you were suspending your disbelief for

I can suspend a great deal of my belief for aliens, for the 3 waterfall thing, for swordfighting on top of cars... but not all at the same time especially if you throw in monkeys.

that you shouldn't be (or at least, shouldn't have to), and that when you weren't suspending your disbelief for

[spoiler]An alien skeleton comes to life and merges with a roomful of others to get its skin and organs back, then El Dorado turns into a giant flying saucer and goes into an alternate universe.

that you should be (and that what you were saying felt contradictory to what I was saying).[/spoiler]

[Dream]

But that's just it, you should suspend your disbelief for the aliens in the same way you would for the Ark or the stones or the Grail. What you shouldn't have to do is suspend your disbelief for the stunts, especially as many times as 4 required.

The problem with the aliens, and with the ending as a whole was that it had nothing to do with history, archaeology or anything else that Indy might have been interested in. You can't put some abstract "knowledge" held by aliens in a museum. So, it can't "BELONG IN A MUSEUM!" That's the problem. What was Indy doing there, and why? It was just because he was kidnapped? He had no motivation from archaeology, just to find out what was going on with his old friend. He wasn't chasing something inherently dangerous in order to keep it from someone evil. It isn't hard to believe that aliens showed up. It's hard to believe that aliens randomly showed up to a pair of adventuring archaeologists just when a Soviet mystic... etc.

If the greatest anti-semites in the history of the world dig up the ark of the covenant, and try to use it for their own nefarious ends, there will be ructions. If you drink from the holy grail... bad things if you're bad. Indian death cults might just want to eat your still-beating heart, and run a child exploiting mine operation. There was always a structure within which to frame the suspension of disbelief. Now it's just M. Night Whatsizname stuff:

Spoiler:

The Mayans turn out to be ALIENS! From ANOTHER DIMENSION! And their treasure isn't gold, IT'S KNOWLEDGE!

Indy should be doing three things: Punching Nazis, Rescuing extremely dangerous historical artifacts, and Having trouble with women. He didn't do any of these things in the movie, and that was what made it hard to believe. It was out of character.

[JayDee]

I thought the mythical city part of the plot was actually pretty sufficient. Indy didn't know (did he even suspect?) anything about Aliens until right at the end. Aztec (and such) mythology seems like the perfect fit for Indy, but it wasn't handled at all well.

[scowdich]

It was mentioned earlier in the movie that Indy was part of the team that

Spoiler:

inspected/dissected the alien corpse

the Russians were looking for at Area 51 - that's how he knew about the magnetism thing, I seem to remember. What that particular McGuffin had to do with the rest of the plot, we'll never know; seems it was just a way to get Indy involved in stuff and things.

And I don't remember anyone ever saying Aztec.

[Gunfingers]

I think Aztec was just a generalization of south american indians. Kind of like how pundits say "Al Qaeda" when referring to any islamic terrorist organization.

[JayDee]

Yeah, that's why I said Aztec and such. The tribe in the movies was an invented (and extinct) one from memory.

[22/7]

The problem with the aliens, and with the ending as a whole was that it had nothing to do with history, archaeology or anything else that Indy might have been interested in. You can't put some abstract "knowledge" held by aliens in a museum. So, it can't "BELONG IN A MUSEUM!"

Uhh.. no. The crystal skulls actually do exist, they're something of an historical anomaly and so you can see why Jones would be interested in them. On top of that, he's been forced to help the Russians because of his friend being kinapped.

That's the problem. What was Indy doing there, and why? It was just because he was kidnapped? He had no motivation from archaeology, just to find out what was going on with his old friend. He wasn't chasing something inherently dangerous in order to keep it from someone evil. It isn't hard to believe that aliens showed up. It's hard to believe that aliens randomly showed up to a pair of adventuring archaeologists just when a Soviet mystic... etc.

As stated above, both by myself and everyone else.

If the greatest anti-semites in the history of the world dig up the ark of the covenant, and try to use it for their own nefarious ends, there will be ructions. If you drink from the holy grail... bad things if you're bad. Indian death cults might just want to eat your still-beating heart, and run a child exploiting mine operation. There was always a structure within which to frame the suspension of disbelief. Now it's just M. Night Whatsizname stuff:

Spoiler:

The Mayans turn out to be ALIENS! From ANOTHER DIMENSION! And their treasure isn't gold, IT'S KNOWLEDGE!

Indy should be doing three things: Punching Nazis, Rescuing extremely dangerous historical artifacts, and Having trouble with women. He didn't do any of these things in the movie, and that was what made it hard to believe. It was out of character.

Well, he did have some trouble with women in this one. Oddly enough, very much like in the first and second movies, he gets the girl, though he's old enough in this one that that means he gets married. Nazis weren't involved in the second movie, and the second movie artifacts weren't particularly dangerous (at least, they must not have been since the cult actually had all of the required stones and never did anything awful with them. Also, do you even remember what happened to those anti-Semites that opened the Ark? Do you? Oh, that's right, they all died a terribly awful and painful death. Gawd, it would have been terrible if the Nazis had gotten ahold of that and let Adolf himself open it. Man, can you imagine how horrible Dead and Melted Hitler (sold at all fine toy retailers) would have been?

Point being, there is no cut and dry equation for a good Indy movie, and not following that nonexistant equation is not the reason that this movie sucked.

[Gunfingers]

Actually, there were five Shankara stones and mola ram only had three of them.

[22/7]

Actually, there were five Shankara stones and mola ram only had three of them.

Ahh, well nevermind then on that point. I assumed that since they had three stones in a skull (one in each eye and one in the mouth) that they had all of them, but apparently not.

[MotorToad]

Point being, there is no cut and dry equation for a good Indy movie...

I think the equation is

^Movie/₂ != [whole number]

So maybe there will be magic in movie 5? Maybe?

Yeah, I don't have my hopes up, either.

As an added note, this equation works with Star Trek movies if you replace the "!=" with "=".

[Dream]

The problem with the aliens, and with the ending as a whole was that it had nothing to do with history, archaeology or anything else that Indy might have been interested in. You can't put some abstract "knowledge" held by aliens in a museum. So, it can't "BELONG IN A MUSEUM!"

Uhh.. no. The crystal skulls actually do exist, they're something of an historical anomaly and so you can see why Jones would be interested in them. On top of that, he's been forced to help the Russians because of his friend being kinapped.

I know the skulls are real, but I'm not aware of any mythology to do with them that deals with interdimensional aliens. The Indian death cult, the grail and the ark all stuck to their mythology, at least in a hollywood action movie way. Crusaders guarding the grail, heart extraction and weird ritual in the death cult and so on. Interdimensional aliens is an unnecessary leap, because there is more than enough real mythology to go on, an it seems a gratuitous spectacle. It is also the first time the series has gone beyond man and the religious history of man. I have no idea why it was considered a good idea.

[22/7]

I know the skulls are real, but I'm not aware of any mythology to do with them that deals with interdimensional aliens. The Indian death cult, the grail and the ark all stuck to their mythology, at least in a hollywood action movie way. Crusaders guarding the grail, heart extraction and weird ritual in the death cult and so on. Interdimensional aliens is an unnecessary leap, because there is more than enough real mythology to go on, an it seems a gratuitous spectacle. It is also the first time the series has gone beyond man and the religious history of man. I have no idea why it was considered a good idea.

Of course it wasn't a good idea, but that's what they did. One of the theories is that aliens were involved in the creation of the crystal skulls, so they were sticking to one of the mythologies. The whole "interdimensional" thing was kind of thrown in at the last second, and I suspect you realized that as well, so I'm not really sure what you're looking for there. Yes it was bad, no the aliens themselves didn't really require any more suspension of disbelief than other Indy movies. It was all the other shit that made the thing damn near unbearable.

[Various Varieties]

Red Letter Media/Harry S. Plinkett (of 70-minute Star Wars prequel review fame) turn their attention to Indy 4:
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/indi ... tal-skull/

Get past the silly voice and crude toilet humour and dubious rape jokes, and those Plinkett reviews are really very good at pinpointing the fundamental general problems with films. More specific moments get criticised too ("Parttime." "Part time." "Parttime." "Part time."), but they're not usually the ones that most people fixate on: in this case, fridge nuking is barely mentioned. Even the Tarzan vine swinging and CGI critters only get discussed briefly - but probably less time is dedicated to them than Plinkett spends clearing out the cat tray and, er, smashing a TV in a rather creative way.

I hope the hint at the end that the Matrix sequels could be next up turns out to be accurate.