Asexuality

[vqcg]

Holy crap. I've called myself Asexual for years but never knew it was a real line of thought.

In many forums there is some variant of "Are you a Virgin" thread, and I reply with some variant of "Yes, and you can keep your STD's, Babies, and Drama, thanks."

HOWEVER, while I am basically attracted to women, I purposely don't act on it. Does that make me an avoidant hetero or asexual?

as far as I'm aware, being 'asexual' is to do with lack of attraction/drive. If it's a conscious decision, you're celibate. Maybe even 'antisexual' if you feel like identifying that way (although it sounds like an angry label to me).

[Vanguard]

If it's a conscious decision, you're celibate. Maybe even 'antisexual' if you feel like identifying that way (although it sounds like an angry label to me).

Precisely why I have trouble identifying myself.
Celibate sounds too religious somehow.
And you're right with "anti-sexual", sounds kind of... bad.

Asexual just seems like the middle-ground for me but it might not be correct.

[Kendo_Bunny]

Technically, going strictly by definitions, you're celibate if you consciously have a sex drive, but do not act on it. Isaac Newton and Immanuel Kant were celibate.

However, if you want to identify as asexual, because celibate is usually applied to Catholic priests, I don't think anyone is really going to argue, unless they're a militant.

[tehmikey]

Look at the wonderful conversations that are had when I take a week break from the fora.

Vanguard mentions the choice to not have sex; however, my situation is slightly different.

Story time and background:
In my experience, sex has only complicated my life. I enjoy the act of it, but the benefits do not outweigh the drama that follows in my case. For me, I can only commit to sex when in a serious relationship as I feel it is the next logical step. I have no problem with the idea of casual encounters if the situation is understood by both parties, but they are not for me. Upon coming to the conclusion that sex is not worth it, I began telling people I am asexual. I feel no sex drive at this point in my life. This is a half truth because I am fairly sure I will still find women attractive under the proper situations.

Whenever I think about my situation, I cannot help but think I am an idiot. When I first claimed to be asexual, I figured it would allow me to find deeper meaning in my relationships. Instead, it separates out a large number of people. By not expressing at least somewhat of a sex drive, dating becomes trivial.

Serious Business:
It seems that a good majority of the people who claim to be asexual were that way from the start. There are a few who think they are, but they have come to enjoy sex. Then there is me, who discards sex drive for the sake of convenience.

Is it possible to become asexual? How does society view such a situation?

[Vanguard]

However, if you want to identify as asexual, because celibate is usually applied to Catholic priests, I don't think anyone is really going to argue, unless they're a militant.

That's fair.
I don't even have a sex drive, though. If I do it's extremely minor.

[Barton]

.

[Bruce]

Whenever I think about my situation, I cannot help but think I am an idiot. When I first claimed to be asexual, I figured it would allow me to find deeper meaning in my relationships. Instead, it separates out a large number of people. By not expressing at least somewhat of a sex drive, dating becomes trivial.

I like this. It very quickly removes those people who are just after sex and leaves the people who are interested in you. There may not be many, but the signal to noise ratio is very good.

[Vanguard]

-snip-

Asexuals may experience romantic attraction, or the desire for, fantasy of, or propensity towards romantic love, often directed at people of genders falling within an affectional orientation.

(Scratched the ones that don't apply to me)

Religious beliefs (religious celibacy)
To avoid the risk and/or prevent the spread of venereal disease
To focus energies on other matters, like one's career or social issues (sublimation)
To avoid contributing to overpopulation
To cultivate a relationship according to an ideal of chastity
An inability to obtain a willing, acceptable, or tolerable sexual partner (involuntary celibacy)
A distaste or lack of appetite for sex (asexuality, antisexualism)
A distaste or lack of desire for couplehood
To avoid persecution (e.g. prosecution for gay relations under sodomy laws)
Perceived benefit of alteration of physiological factors (hormonal changes)
As an attempt to regain a sense of self and independence from others
Medical limitations (medical celibacy)
Lack of confidence and/or comfort with the gender of choice

So, Celibate doesn't have to apply to religion. reading the article I will accept the term "Celibate Asexual" when people ask be about orientation and such.
And quoting these two side-by-side shows there is some slight relation even though they are not the same.

Interesting stuff. Good info to have.

[Ferahgo]

I must say, this entire thread is extremely interesting.

I hope that no one takes offense to this (that statement has been made by a lot of posters here, but I figured I should put it out there as well in a preemptive attempt at covering my ass), but I tend to think that asexuality in humans is probably a result of the delicate balance of brain chemicals being a certain way or other.

My own experience is like this. I'm a straight (mostly) female with a pretty strong sex drive. I was this way even prior to puberty and at puberty it became almost unbearably strong at times. However, when I was around 15 years old I was diagnosed as having some neurological issues and was put on drugs for a few years. These drugs didn't lower my libido as claimed happens occasionally, but completely obliterated it and made me utterly and completely not attracted to any humans for several years. All during this time I thought that I was becoming a homosexual and simply hadn't realized it yet, but eventually came to terms with the fact that they somehow changed my brain chemicals so much that not a single vestige of human attraction remained.

I went off those drugs when I was 17 and my sex drive gradually came back, and nowadays (I'm now 21) it's just about as strong as it was before I went on the drugs at all. Oddly enough, my current boyfriend went through something very similar when he was a teenager, where the drugs he was on obliterated his sex drive entirely, but now it's also back to normal (thank god :p). These instances make me think that at least in part, asexuality is caused by an abnormal (and I say abnormal because like it or not, and no offense intended, any sexual organism not wanting to reproduce isn't exactly normal) balance of chemicals in the brain.

This aside, I also have a question for any asexuals on the board, but the OP specifically:

I recently saw a documentary about a few guys who had a strong sexual attraction to cars and other vehicles but absolutely no attraction to humans of either gender whatsoever. The OP mentioned something about becoming aroused by architecture - do you think it's possible that your sexuality is just completely focused on something else, and you just haven't developed that aspect of yourself very strongly? These guys who found cars arousing had developed their sexualities very strongly and it seemed from an observer's standpoint to not be that much different than attraction to a human, just focused entirely differently. I also read a story about a woman who was sexually attracted to the Berlin Wall and the Eiffel Tower, so this is evidently possible for architecture as well (and is probably possible for just about anything in existence).

[MrEff]

I always wondered how my brain decides that girl-shaped things are hot but nothing else. And it's not just an association...if it were I would be aroused by my computer or my bed or condoms. Maybe if I put on my tinfoil helmet it would stop?

Also, a minor point that may be relevant to some: The birth rate in the developed world is extremely close to breaking even. In Europe they are below the critical replacement level. So unless you live in a developing nation, I wouldn't worry about population explodey.

[SecondTalon]

I hope that no one takes offense to this (that statement has been made by a lot of posters here, but I figured I should put it out there as well in a preemptive attempt at covering my ass), but I tend to think that asexuality in humans is probably a result of the delicate balance of brain chemicals being a certain way or other.

Well, I figure that's a fairly obvious observation. The only trickiness comes in when a society or an individual has to decide whether or not that's a Bad Thing. Liking to eat food to keep you alive is a brain chemical thing. Hearing voices that tell you to kill your neighbors to please your cat who's actually the Goat-Demon Sherlongadar come to Earth to harvest soulds to make afterlife chiclets is also a brain-chemical thing. One is a good thing, one is not.

Some people are left handed, some people don't care about fucking.

Also, a minor point that may be relevant to some: The birth rate in the developed world is extremely close to breaking even. In Europe they are below the critical replacement level. So unless you live in a developing nation, I wouldn't worry about population explodey.

Well, sure, except that a family of three in the developed world consumes resources in magnitudes that don't come close to what a family of 16 do in the undeveloped world. So population controls are something to think about... and really, negative population growth would probably be a good thing. But that's a whole different argument for another thread.

[Akula]

You're not missing much... as you said, you'd be completely uncomfortable doing it. And so, just about any sexual experience would be negative for you. The only positive possibility comes from doing it with someone who you could be comfortable with.

It's really not all that different from most people. Sex is generally far... FAR superior when it's with someone you deeply care about. You'd just rather limit yourself to the good stuff.

See, now I've painted you as a sexsnob. Like a winesnob but different - "Hmmm, yes, one night stands... how quaint"

[poxic]

I only discovered the idea of human asexuality within the last year or two. For the last almost-40 years, I'd been trying to figure out why the hell I'm so (apparently) different from everyone else I knew.

I'm heterosexual. I've dated, and had a fair amount of sex. I'd never understood what the big deal was about. I masturbate when my hormones hit particular points in my monthly cycle, but it's nothing more than a physical release, slightly better than the taste of good orange juice when you're dehydrated and need vitamins. I genuinely didn't get it, why sex was supposed to be such a big deal. I assumed it was some kind of unwritten agreement: tell everyone it's awesome because it's good for marketing if we're all feeling inadequate.

Then I learned something that should have been taught in high school sex ed. Up to 90% of the reward of sex is not physical -- it's emotional.

You could have almost seen the lightbulb going off over my head. "Ohhhh... that's what the big deal is about." I have never experienced any emotional benefit from sex. Most of the emotions I've ever felt while getting sweaty and awkward could be summarised as "please God let this be over soon" or "thank God it's over, I hope he doesn't want it again tonight".

In my case, I suspect that it can be traced to emotional trauma in infancy. Some hidden part of myself decided that I would never let another person that close to me, ever again. I doubt I am a typical asexual, and yes, there is hope that a sex therapist could "fix" me. I'm not sure I'm prepared to go through years of expensive therapy with no guarantee of change, when it might be much easier to find an asexual partner who doesn't need to kiss me (that's an issue, too).

I'm still coming to terms with this, but it has at least reassured me that I'm not nucking futs. Other people have been here. There are a couple of ways forward. That knowledge alone is a gift.

[Vanguard]

Yea, I was like that recently.

To sum up both our posts, "Hell Yes! We're not crazy!"

xkcd forums are so awesome.

[WraithGadra]

See, I'm far happier without sex, is the thing. Every time I get exposed to a situation where I could potentially be involved in it, or to things like, say, erotic fiction (talking about the sorts of things we find in Neil Gaiman books, rather than, say, pr0n. ok, sometimes you can find pr0n in Neil Gaiman books: see Smoke and Mirrors) I'm immediately repulsed. The difference is, I'm not... upset about being asexual. Quite the contrary: I'd rather be this than anyone else. I'm not interested in meeting that "Special someone" - I already love quite a few people VERY deeply, without that aspect of it.

And I find that without that on my mind, I'm a lot more free to devote my brain to other things.

(also, it's not to say that I'm not a pervert. I sometimes shock my friends by making incredibly obscene jokes - they're all well aware of my non-sexuality, so it makes it even funnier when I do something stupid like that)

Awesome. I'm not sure what you're looking for here, or why you would be upset. A close friend and I both have asexual leanings (i.e. we can enjoy pr0n, but have no interest in sex), so I can understand where you're coming from. All I can really say is "More power to you".

[monkeymoo]

I have a friend who is asexual and at the begining it was hard to comprehend but that soon went away after much discussion. I had never even thought about it before, let alone being a sexual orientation until that point.

[Hammer]

Asexuality was something I'd heard about here and there, but never really focused on very firmly as I have a particularly strong libido myself. My current boyfriend, however, has always been very disinclined towards a sexual relationship, but has remained actively supportive and affectionate in our relationship. As I found myself fretting more and more over his lack of interest I actually began questioning him on his sexual interests in an attempt to determine if he was asexual or not.

My circumstance is proving to be rather unique, as I'm finding that even amongst asexuals, the majority are female and not male. The occurrence of a male not being interested in sex has stirred up quite a controversy amongst my friends, and the majority feel that there is something 'wrong' with my man. I personally don't feel this way, but I must admit that the several month long dry spells can be very frustrating for me.

We do engage in sex every so often, but it is entirely initiated by myself and I end up doing a lot of the 'work' myself. The complexities of a sexual/asexual coupling is proving to be rather difficult. I struggle with self-esteem issues and I think it's difficult for my man to comprehend how much his disinterest affects me, even if I know that it's simply part of who he is and doesn't have anything to do with me personally. Just imagine offering yourself to your lover on a regular basis and being denied more than half of the time. It's a difficult thing to swallow, even if you understand the reasoning behind it.

I love him very much and we'll be having our first child together in the next month, so we've managed to balance our relationship well enough for now, but are there any other couples that struggle in this way to balance between asexuality and the needs of their partner?

[poxic]

Have you checked out the AVEN site yet? (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.ph ... =Main_Page) They have a wiki and a forum that might be useful.

I think I have a login for the forum, but I haven't been there for ages. I think I got a bit weirded out by "outing" myself, or something.

(Edit: there's a decent FAQ at http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.ph ... onship_FAQ, including "For Sexuals". I'ma go read some of this myself...)

[Hammer]

Have you checked out the AVEN site yet? (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.ph ... =Main_Page) They have a wiki and a forum that might be useful.

I think I have a login for the forum, but I haven't been there for ages. I think I got a bit weirded out by "outing" myself, or something.

I think I looked over it a little bit when I was doing my original search, but I've honestly been distracted by the pregnancy. After months of begging I finally got laid and ended up pregnant on the first shot. Since I'm due in just a few weeks the pregnancy has sort of taken the forefront of most of my thoughts, but I'm sure once things have settled a bit I'll actually go researching again. I was just hoping for a little commentary while I was here. X)

[Bruce]

I take offence at the concept that asexuality is limited to females. There is nothing wrong with your partner. I will say however that when I was in a relationship I did try to please my partner in this regard despite my personal lack of interest. Ultimately my disinterest in sex was a large part of what cause the relationship to fail, she felt as you do. I have no solutions to this problem, if you work it out let me know.

[EmptySet]

Not to be pessimistic or anything, but I'm not sure it's a problem which is necessarily solvable. If you have no interest in sex, but your partner does, they're not unjustified in feeling that a relationship with someone who shares their sex drive would better fulfill their needs. By the same token, if you consent to sex with your partner even though you're not really interested, you're inconveniencing yourself (and possibly traumatising, depending on how strongly you feel about it), and your needs might be better served with an asexual partner. It's not that anyone is at fault or somehow deficient - merely that your needs and interests do not align as well as you might like.

One way of dealing with it might be to encourage your partner to fulfill their needs through one-night stands or "friends with benefits", but that seems likely to cause problems of its own...

[RikaLovesDie]

I take offence at the concept that asexuality is limited to females. There is nothing wrong with your partner.

I meant no offense, and I honestly appreciate that you've said this. It's very comforting to have others agree that my partner is different, but in no way 'broken'.

One way of dealing with it might be to encourage your partner to fulfill their needs through one-night stands or "friends with benefits", but that seems likely to cause problems of its own...

This is something we've discussed, and he's actually suggested an open relationship in order for me to meet my needs, but this is something that I, personally, cannot do. For me, the purpose of a sexual relationship is to experience the emotional connection with the person you love, not merely to feed the physical need, although I've felt that at times as well. Basically, my personal definition of a sexual relationship makes it impossible for me to share it with anyone other than the person I've chosen as my monogamous partner.

And my partner does oblige me when asked, but admittedly it sort of kills the moment when I have to ask for it every time and he's taking a while to get up to speed because he's only there to make me happy and has no interest for himself.

I understand that a lot of people might encourage going our separate ways at this point, but we're extremely happy in all other aspects of our relationship. We're having a child together and we're even working on planning a wedding (we'd been planning the wedding since before we found out I was pregnant ). I think we've both decided that we'd rather find a way to make things work rather than giving up our relationship because we're honestly and truly happy with each other.

I just really want to get laid more than once every 5 months.

[EmptySet]

One way of dealing with it might be to encourage your partner to fulfill their needs through one-night stands or "friends with benefits", but that seems likely to cause problems of its own...

This is something we've discussed, and he's actually suggested an open relationship in order for me to meet my needs, but this is something that I, personally, cannot do. For me, the purpose of a sexual relationship is to experience the emotional connection with the person you love, not merely to feed the physical need, although I've felt that at times as well. Basically, my personal definition of a sexual relationship makes it impossible for me to share it with anyone other than the person I've chosen as my monogamous partner.

Understandable. I'm not into one-night stands and the like, either. However, since this seems to be a minority opinion these days, I thought I'd suggest it.

And my partner does oblige me when asked, but admittedly it sort of kills the moment when I have to ask for it every time and he's taking a while to get up to speed because he's only there to make me happy and has no interest for himself.

I can see where that would be awkward. You could, perhaps, get him to offer it spontaneously for your benefit rather than his, much like buying you gifts or treating you at a restaurant. It wouldn't change his lack of interested, of course, but at least it would prevent you needing to ask every time.

[RikaLovesDie]

And my partner does oblige me when asked, but admittedly it sort of kills the moment when I have to ask for it every time and he's taking a while to get up to speed because he's only there to make me happy and has no interest for himself.

I can see where that would be awkward. You could, perhaps, get him to offer it spontaneously for your benefit rather than his, much like buying you gifts or treating you at a restaurant. It wouldn't change his lack of interested, of course, but at least it would prevent you needing to ask every time.

My current tactic is pushing the idea that sex may induce labor, thereby making it possible for him to go to PAX if our baby is born soon.

I suppose the pregnancy in and of itself has been a huge hurtle in our sexual relationship as well since essentially I've been pregnant ever since we started having sex.

[poxic]

If I'd actually married the most compatible guy I dated... hmm, what advice would I give that theoretical couple, given what I've learned about myself? What can I say that would sound doable to me now?

It would help maybe if I had a schedule: say every second/fourth/whichever Wednesday, my (theoretical) boy may expect some booty. If I can plan my week/month/whatever around that, maybe I'd be able to handle it, so long as boy doesn't expect me to be as vocal as his previous partners. (I don't experience the full-body-and-emotion impact of sex that others seem to have, so I don't make all the gratifying noises. It's bothered more than one previous partner. Knowing what I do now, I don't blame them -- I sounded like I wasn't enjoying it, which I wasn't, at least not enough to make the mess and effort worthwhile for me.)

So long as boy does something equally gratifying for me... regular backrubs? Making dinner half of the time? Calling my mother and entertaining her a couple of times a week? ...so long as I feel his effort matches mine, I might be able to convince myself to submit to scheduled sex. (Note that sex has always been about as pleasant for me as getting my teeth cleaned by a dentist. Feels good when it's over and done.)

Not sure this will help you, but best wishes nevertheless. I always hope for love to win over adverse circumstances.

[EmptySet]

So long as boy does something equally gratifying for me... regular backrubs?

You could segue from back rubs to sex via erotic massage!

[poxic]

So long as boy does something equally gratifying for me... regular backrubs?

You could segue from back rubs to sex via erotic massage!

About as effectively as a segue from backrubs to dental checkups... which, come to think of it, might not be impossible.

[Bruce]

So long as boy does something equally gratifying for me... regular backrubs?

You could segue from back rubs to sex via erotic massage!

About as effectively as a segue from backrubs to dental checkups... which, come to think of it, might not be impossible.

Want to start a dental practice with backrubs? This could work...

[poxic]

Want to start a dental practice with backrubs? This could work...

Not a dentist, but I am pretty damn good at the backrub/massage thing. Just need to go offer my services to a dentist's office so I can ... get paid to manipulate random strangers' skin ... suddenly this doesn't sound so good. (And I suddenly have more respect for massage therapists.)

[Kaienne]

I managed to luck out; I'm celibate [for religious reasons] and my partner is asexual. I'm also exploring the possibility of being asexual myself; celibacy was a very easy step for me to take, given my own disinterest in sex. It's just so squishy, and gloopy, and slimy, and gross; and the amount of energy it takes- everything from meeting people to courting to dating to initiating to the amount of energy it actually just takes to do- is totally not worth it. Like some of the others in this thread, my favourite part is when it's over.

[Bruce]

I managed to luck out; I'm celibate [for religious reasons] and my partner is asexual. I'm also exploring the possibility of being asexual myself; celibacy was a very easy step for me to take, given my own disinterest in sex. It's just so squishy, and gloopy, and slimy, and gross; and the amount of energy it takes- everything from meeting people to courting to dating to initiating to the amount of energy it actually just takes to do- is totally not worth it. Like some of the others in this thread, my favourite part is when it's over.

I see this as a little dangerous though that when your religious imperative becomes reversed you may change your mind and this can strain the relationship. Not saying this will happen, but your comments threw a warning flag to me.

[poxic]

I see this as a little dangerous though that when your religious imperative becomes reversed you may change your mind and this can strain the relationship. Not saying this will happen, but your comments threw a warning flag to me.

I can see religious habits changing. After all, mine have, many times. On the other hand, it's kind of hard to reverse the conviction that sex just isn't worth the hassle. That's what defines many people as asexuals, or at least as having low sex drives.

/stomps flat the sudden perception of monasteries as pickup joints

[Kaienne]

I see this as a little dangerous though that when your religious imperative becomes reversed you may change your mind and this can strain the relationship. Not saying this will happen, but your comments threw a warning flag to me.

If my religious habits do change, I wouldn't imagine them changing outside of the general circle of eastern spirituality that they're in, many of which look down on sex as distracting from spiritual ascendence. In any case, even should I go about a full 180 (heavens forbid), I can't really see it also changing my views on sex as slimy and gross.

[I]t's kind of hard to reverse the conviction that sex just isn't worth the hassle.

That too.

[freosan]

I identify as asexual, and for several years I was completely repulsed by the whole idea of sex. (Ew it is sticky and gross and there are fluids and why?) This has caused people to tell me I'm just repressed. A lot. Which drives me nuts, because... I'm really, really not.

(Edited for Gee Willikers, real-life people read these boards.)

Lately I'm kind of working around to the idea that maybe it wouldn't suck completely, but I'm still not interested in it. Kind of like how I'm not too interested in, oh, football. Only playing in a casual football game wouldn't get me any STDs or unfortunate emotional entanglements.

[thinglie]

I can't be bothered traipsing through this thread to see if someone else mentioned this, but Spivak pronoun has been in use on MOOs for some time. Certainly, it has started to leak into my own conversation.

I pronounce e as the letter, eir as air, ey as ay. Other spivak users out there, is this your preferred pronunciation?

[BlackSails]

Going through some of the wikilinks in this thread, I came to : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_ ... n_Movement

That has to be one of the silliest movements I have ever heard of.

[Kaienne]

I pronounce e as the letter, eir as air, ey as ay. Other spivak users out there, is this your preferred pronunciation?

I'm not sure what the exact definition of a spivak is, but I'm lead to believe it's someone who is some sort of non-binary gender variant. If this is the case, then I would qualify as such, and I do not prefer the spivak pronouns. I prefer sie and hir.

[RikaLovesDie]

I suppose the major issue I'm finding here is that the majority of the people who are responding are either not in relationships or don't even want one. My circumstance is awkward because I'm in a very serious relationship, one which is going to evolve into parenthood quite soon. This isn't really about why someone does or doesn't like sex. It's about coexisting with separate needs and desires. Is it possible to strike that balance? If you're with someone who feels that they need sex, but you don't, do you take the higher ground and just do it for them? Does that kind of agreement ruin it anyway?

I think Poxic came the closest to really giving me the advice I'm looking for...

It would help maybe if I had a schedule: say every second/fourth/whichever Wednesday, my (theoretical) boy may expect some booty. If I can plan my week/month/whatever around that, maybe I'd be able to handle it, [...]

So long as boy does something equally gratifying for me... regular backrubs? Making dinner half of the time? Calling my mother and entertaining her a couple of times a week? ...so long as I feel his effort matches mine, I might be able to convince myself to submit to scheduled sex.

I haven't gotten to the point of attempting to schedule sex, but it is something that I've considered. Honestly, I think a lot of the issues I'm being vexed by are too personal to really be shared and I'll just have to sort things out on my own.

[VannA]

It's about coexisting with separate needs and desires. Is it possible to strike that balance? If you're with someone who feels that they need sex, but you don't, do you take the higher ground and just do it for them? Does that kind of agreement ruin it anyway?

Honestly?

I think this will present a problem to you, in the long run.

I don't mean to cast aspertions on your future, and if your partner is ok with it now, then they may be ok with it indefinately. But nobody who loves another person is going to actually enjoy submitting that person to an experience they actively dislike.

No matter which way you go, here, I don't think you'd be particularly well off.

I could be, and I hope I am, wrong.

[BattleMoose]

/me ungenders himself

Whoopz.