xkcd

by **thepope** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:18 am UTC

OK, so first of all i want to say hello to everyone as i just signed up on this forum although I have been viewing it for quite some time now. I finally decided to go ahead and sign up when I realized that there was now topic, as far as i could find, devoted to the collective Buffyverse. So, I decided to make one. I pretty much intend it to be just a general discussion on your thoughts on the show as a whole or any particular episodes you find to be outstanding for whatever reason.

I figure I'll start off with my own thoughts. I never really watched the show until just recently when a friend got me into it and ever since I've pretty much been addicted to the whole thing, comics and all. It seems that almost all of the characters that ended up on Angel I wasn't too fond of any time they were on Buffy, but I enjoyed them very much on Angel. Evil Willow is the most badass character ever. If i were to describe myself as one of the characters i would have to say I'm a mixture between Xander and Oz. Xander for his guyness and having few guy friends. And Oz for his intellectual traits and general quiet demeanor.

by **Jesse** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

I love this series and it's spinoffs. I am currently reading Buffy - Season Eight in comic book form, alongside Angel: After The Fall.

I suggest you do this as well.

by **thepope** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:30 pm UTC

Yea the season eight comics are excellent. I haven't gotten to the Angel ones just yet however as I'm still catching up with the show. I just wish they came out faster.

by **Jesse** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:16 pm UTC

They're quite regular for comics that involve Joss Whedon at some point in the process.

by **JayDee** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:34 am UTC

Jesse wrote:I love this series and it's spinoffs. I am currently reading Buffy - Season Eight in comic book form, alongside Angel: After The Fall.

Yes, I am loving the comic continuations. Enjoying them considerably more than the other Buffy/Angel comics I've read over the years, actually. Read the first issue of Spike: After the Fall yesterday, which also seems fairly strong.

by **sugarhyped** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:26 pm UTC

I actually I haven't read the comics. I watched up until the 6th season and stopped because it was too depressing. I watched the 7th season last year. It was much lighter which made me happy.

I know a lot of people love Once More With Feeling but my favorite episode is Hush. I think it was awesome and it was not a part of that effin season 6.

by **Jor** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:42 am UTC

I think I'm the only person who really liked Season 6. It was dark, but why is that a bad thing? It was a bunch of existential breakdowns that felt like a natural progression for the chratecers.

Plus: Once More With Feeling! Do I even need to comment?

by **Gojoe** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:11 am UTC

I agree with sugarhyped. Hush was an AMAZING episode. I just loved it so much!

Once more with feeling is a tie for first place though...
(Oh and if you have not seen Dr Horrible, you should be shot!)

by **chef007c** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Definately have to call Once More... my favorite. Keep on a my computer and watch it once a month, just to make my day better. :mrgreen:

by **sugarhyped** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:18 pm UTC

Jor wrote:I think I'm the only person who really liked Season 6. It was dark, but why is that a bad thing? It was a bunch of existential breakdowns that felt like a natural progression for the chratecers.

Plus: Once More With Feeling! Do I even need to comment?

It is not that I do not like the dark and depressing, it is just that she got a job at a fast food place. There were too many real problems... and it was all of the 6th season. I prefer one depressing episode or arch in between some not so saddening ones. Also killing Tara was dark and depressing but I was okay with it because it had more to do with the dangers of living in the Buffyverse. It has been a long time so I cannot really be detailed in my dislike.

Also I think Once More and other individual episodes of the 6th season (like Tabula Rasa) were good. Just that the season was overall not that good.

by **thepope** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:26 pm UTC

The thing with season 6 was simply that it was depressing. The actual storytelling was excellent, but after spending so much time watching the characters grow and change in previous seasons, watching them in so much pain kind of sucked and wasn't as enjoyable.

by **sugarhyped** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:39 pm UTC

^exactly

by **theonlyjett** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:49 pm UTC

I know it was depressing, also, but The Body was probably my favorite episode, if I was forced to choose, that is.

by **FireRose** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:33 pm UTC

While I found season six pretty depressing and I hated that Riley came back and had a perfect life, I didn't hate it. There were too many good aspects for it to be bad, including Once More With Feeling, Spuffy, and Evil Willow.

If you want a Joss season that should be completely obliterated and rewritten, try Angel Season 4.

by **Jesse** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

I liked Season 4 of Angel. I thought it built nicely.

by **serenity5x5** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:28 pm UTC

I love all things Whedon. I have the Chosen box set with all seven seasons of Buffy. When people see it on my shelf, they think I'm crazy.
Now for the ultimate time-honored question: who would win in a fight, cavemen or astronauts?
And the other, not so time-honored one: Spuffy or Bangel?

by **FireRose** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:57 pm UTC

Astronauts, they have laser guns.
Bangel, because Buffy and Angel were in love, but while Spike loved Buffy, Buffy didn't love him.

Also, I have both the Chosen box set and the Angel one and my shelf looks like a shrine to Joss.

by **JayDee** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:12 am UTC

FireRose wrote:If you want a Joss season that should be completely obliterated and rewritten, try Angel Season 4.

Crazy talk! I loved it when it aired, and it worked even better when I rewatched it on DVD as basically one really long episode.

by **ian** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:20 am UTC

Hush probably joint top with Tabla Rasa for my favourite episode. The bit in the lecture room is awesome.

by **schumi_girl** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:05 pm UTC

Oooh, Buffyspeak!

I got into the show when my neighbour lent it to me, three years ago. I was an instant addict, and this year, for my 18th birthday, my parents gave me the Collector's Edition box set, which I've watched four times so far. [My birthday was only in May.]

My favourite episodes:
'Band Candy' [Snyder makes this episode]
'Once More With Feeling' [pretty much a given]
'Tabula Rasa'
'Earshot'
'Pangs' [I love the line 'You made a bear! You made a bear!']
'Halloween'
'Storyteller'

Sorry, that's a lot, I know. There's more, that's just what I thought of straight up.

Favourite character.. um. I love Angel. I hate Spike. I love Andrew. I hate Riley. I love Faith. I get pretty annoyed with Dawn. I love Anya. I love Xander. I love Willow. I love Tara. Oz makes me laugh. I love Buffy.
Out of them all, My top favourites are Faith, Angel and Willow.

I'm not sure about my favourite season. Season 1 & 2 have a special spot in my heart, that's for sure.

All of the Potentials annoyed the crap out of me.

I hated Season 6.

I haven't watched the Angel series yet, although I plan to, in the next week or so.
I'm desperately trying to find the Buffy Season 8 comics anywhere near me, and am having no luck so far

I'm getting a Buffy hoodie custom made for me at the moment.

I got my leather pants, Faith style, in the mail last week.

I have the Radio Sunnydale CD, and love it. I'm currently hunting for the Buffy: The Score CD.

And, I think that's all I've got to contribute right now.

*runs away to watch Season 2*

by **Mr_Meister** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:44 am UTC

Spike is a brilliant character, especially when he's a good guy. Giles is also just as awesome...can't go past Giles.

My least favourite character is definitely Dawn. I wanted her to be killed by a vampire before long.

by **estrangedfellow** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:55 am UTC

I think Wesley is under appreciated.

Spoiler:

by **JayDee** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:03 am UTC

I love Wesley, and especially his arc in Angel. Most of all, I think, his exchange with Willow about having gone to a dark place.

by **thepope** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:46 pm UTC

Personally I think Wesley is my favorite character in the whole Angel series. He without a doubt evolved the most as a character and by the end I think I would go to say that he is the strongest as a person.

by **VannA** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:48 am UTC

Schumi - I can hook you up with those.

Also - Did you read the Nancy Golden story that was intended to finish Season 7?

Its quite different from the comics, but the comics do make mention of it, in a.. interesting manner.

by **steewi** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:37 am UTC

Giles is def my favourite character.

Somewhere on the DVD release (I think in Season 7) Joss lists his top 10. I was amused and reassured that his favourites were mostly my favourites.
It included, if I remember rightly:
Becoming
Hush
Earshot
Conversations With Dead People
The Body
Once More With Feeling
The Gift
Restless
Prophecy Girl
and I think Pangs, but I'm not sure.

by **Ishindri** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:10 am UTC

I just finished Buffy and started on the Season Eight comics, and I'm starting on Angel too (first season's up on Hulu, for anyone interested). I love it absolutely, as I do all of Joss Whedon's work. The man is truly the Dominus of Fiction.

My favorite episodes include both Hush and Once More With Feeling. Just rewatched Band Candy today, and it was great too. I got ahold of the Once More With Feeling soundtrack too, can't stop listening to it.

On a side note, has anyone read Fray?

by **JayDee** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:18 am UTC

I read Fray just the other day. I've been meaning to, um, since it came out, but since there is that cross-over thing I finally got around to it.

It was far better than I expected. Not that I was expecting to be bad or anything, maybe on par with Astonishing X-Men - good, but nothing to write home about. But I really enjoyed it. And for some reason, I was constantly thinking of it as a movie.

by **Wardial3r** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:01 am UTC

After watching firefly/serenity/dr. horrible most recently I thought I'd give it a try, but was not impressed at all.
I watched the first three episodes of Buffy and it just seemed so forced, being thrown into a plot that was so cheesy, with no jokes that were clever at alll. I don't know.

by **Pa-Patch** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:08 am UTC

Yeah, season 4 is a lot better than people say it is. Probably the worst season of Angel, and being next to 5 probably hurts people's view of it, as 5 is so great, but far from bad. All of Angel's seasons are good (as opposed to say, Buffy, where the earlier seasons are markedly worse).

Another for the Wesley camp here. He was good comic relief at the beginning, then had actual character progression and by the end was the biggest bad-ass.

Edit for the fella above: Buffy starts off pretty bad. If you don't want to give it a standard try, at least skip around and watch Once More With Feeling or Hush, and try some Angel too. Better to have watched it out of order than to have missed out on a great couple of series' cause Buffy has a weak start.

by **Wardial3r** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:20 am UTC

Alright, I'm going to watch Hush now.

Edit: Ok I watched Hush. That was a brilliant episode, I don't know If it would be something I'd watch seasons of as the whole vampire/otherworldly beings in all the episodes that I have seen I think will get old after a bit. But the jokes during the presentation and the scenes right before their voices went out were classic. The "Stop Talking" and "SHUT UP!" were perfect.

by **McLovin** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:47 am UTC

Pa-Patch wrote:Edit for the fella above: Buffy starts off pretty bad. If you don't want to give it a standard try, at least skip around and watch Once More With Feeling or Hush, and try some Angel too. Better to have watched it out of order than to have missed out on a great couple of series' cause Buffy has a weak start.

I'm not late to the Buffy party! Nope! Not at all! 8D

While the first season WAS worse than what comes later (I'm currently on Consequences--God, Faith is such a bitch, but I can't help but like her), I still thoroughly enjoyed it. If only for the cute Willow-isms.

And I have seen Hush and Once More With Feeling--both brilliant, with Feeling being my favorite by far. Now I just have to find a way of seeing Seasons 4-7 once I'm done with 3...stupid Hulu

Edit'd:

Spoiler:

by **setzer777** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:40 pm UTC

thepope wrote:The thing with season 6 was simply that it was depressing. The actual storytelling was excellent, but after spending so much time watching the characters grow and change in previous seasons, watching them in so much pain kind of sucked and wasn't as enjoyable.

I disagree, I feel like the storytelling quality took a big hit. The depressing aspects weren't really tied into the monsters of the week as in earlier episodes. This would be fine, except they still felt like they had to have something, so it felt like they tacked on whatever "monster/obstacle of the week" as an afterthought to the primary drama.

Also, the initial creep towards darkness for Willow went from an interesting concept to a ridiculously shallow metaphor for drugs that played like an after school special: Willow driving "high" with Dawn in the car? The magic dealer? Amy stealing *oregano* from Buffy's cupboard for a spell while saying: "I need it! Willow understands!" (ok, that last one I found amusing).

Random aside: After watching Angel and thinking back on early Buffy episodes, the Scooby gang's attitude of "Assume all demons and vampires are evil and kill on sight" attitude seems unconscionable, and makes them no better than what Gunn's crew becomes after he leaves. Though in light of later episodes, you can interpret that as them being manipulated by the Watcher's Council in their somewhat indiscriminate crusade against demons.

by **The-nightmare** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

Personally, I like Angel much better as a series than Buffy. Buffy is always a bitch and is never really a believable character. love all the characters in Angel, both sides.

So, I started watching angel from the beginning. Starting season 2 right now. this show is amazing. How did whedon fall to dollhouse? Atleast Dr.horrible is good.

by **aleflamedyud** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:34 am UTC

I've seen everything of Buffy and Angel that's on Hulu, and I really like the shows. I think Angel is better simply because it's not restricted by the "high school == Hellmouth" allegory of Buffy. Mind you, Angel himself is much better as the flamboyantly sadistic Angelus than as tortured, sad Angel. David Boreanaz is just better at playing douchebags than heroes (one of the reasons I never liked his relationship with Buffy).

by **kevin_c** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:40 am UTC

I have always like the Billy Idol lookalike the best. I thought it was hilarious when he had the damn chip in his head, and he was bumming in Xander's basement, wearing tropical print shirts.

by **michaelandjimi** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:59 am UTC

I've seen all of Seasons 1-3. My sister gets the seasons off of her friends, and then I steal them and watch them. The 4th is tied up in borrowing transit at the moment and I'm suffering Buffy withdrawal. I might just internet them, if I can.

I am loving it. So far my favourite part has to be in the Graduation 2-parter when everyone's so uptight and sad and dark and

Spoiler:

I love the character progression and the writing style. It's been a while since I've been mature enough to appreciate character progression and had a show with good amounts of it in it.

by **Guy_At_A_Keyboard** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:21 pm UTC

I'm on season 6, and only allowing myself to watch when I'm on the treadmill or have done the equivalent amount of exercise. Anyway, I don't really think it's all that bad. I mean, it's had three of my favorite episodes (After Life, Once More With Feeling, and Tabula Rasa), Dawn's more tolerable than in season 5, and Buffy herself is going through some really interesting stuff (The "I think I was in Heaven" speech she gives to Spike is one of the best in the show). The trio are questionable, mainly due to the fact that Jonathan deserves more dignity, but as of 'Dead Things,' they are not a total joke. My biggest problem is that Anya is getting turned into a cartoon of herself, and she's one of my favorite characters (The others would be Jenny Calendar, Oz, and Giles.). All in all, I'd rate season 6 as ahead of one and four, about even with five, and behind two and three.

BTW, does anyone think that the ressurection plot thread is inviting a quietus interruptus pun?

by **missbittens** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:15 am UTC

How did whedon fall to dollhouse?

I think it's a pattern with him to start out badly and get better. Buffy did it, from what I've heard Angel did it [I haven't seen the first season] and now Dollhouse has done it - the first batch of episodes weren't up to his usual standards, but the general consensus is that from 1x06Man On The Street onwards, it's amazing. The DVD-only finale? I think it might be the best episode of television I've seen all damn year.

by **Zohar** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:13 am UTC

missbittens wrote:the first batch of episodes weren't up to his usual standards, but the general consensus is that from 1x06Man On The Street onwards, it's amazing.

For that, at least, the excuse is that Fox heavily directed the first five episodes and only from the sixth onwards decided that maybe he knows what he's doing.

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