F11 Newbie Mafia Round 3 - Game over, Mafia wins

[kellsbells]

I'm defending CV in this; it's his first game.

I'm assuming the main reason you said this was that I defended you-- as much as I appreciate the gesture, I'm fairly certain it hurts both our chances at this point.

You're right. The fact that Kart comes out of her semi-hiding to say nothing but that she's defending you is incredibly bizarre and suspect. I'm almost 100% that Kart is Mafia now... She may be trying to drag CVSoul down with her by looking as though they are in cahoots, or she may actually be trying to cover for him. Either way, Kart looks even more suspicious than before.

I don't think I voted already. Did I vote already? I don't know. Either way:

Vote: Kartoffelkopf

[Mr Pete]

Yep, it certaintly does.

However, Irrefutable: you are pursuing someone who has done the exact same thing as you in a fairly relentless fashion (relentless considering the pace of the game anyway). This makes me suspicious of you; for deflecting attention from yourself by accusing others.


Vote: Irrefutable

I am however, still suspicious of the rest of you. Irrefutable edges ahead by a nose.

[Mr Pete]

Damn ninja's!!

[Mr Pete]

Vote list as is:

1 for Kellsbells (Felltir)
1 for Kartofflewaffle (Kellsbells)
1 for Irrefutable (Mr Pete)

Though Kells makes an excellent point (and I now feel silly for not seeing it), I will not be changing my vote.
3 votes out on different people means that 3 of the remaining 4 are needed to achieve a lynch, hopefully by keeping my vote here we can stop the chances of a speedlynch. (Also keeps the pressure on Irrefutable to answer why he is being so determinedly against someone for making the exact same mistake as him).

[La Chevre!]

I'm defending CV in this; it's his first game.

I'm assuming the main reason you said this was that I defended you-- as much as I appreciate the gesture, I'm fairly certain it hurts both our chances at this point.

You're right. The fact that Kart comes out of her semi-hiding to say nothing but that she's defending you is incredibly bizarre and suspect. I'm almost 100% that Kart is Mafia now... She may be trying to drag CVSoul down with her by looking as though they are in cahoots, or she may actually be trying to cover for him. Either way, Kart looks even more suspicious than before.

I don't think I voted already. Did I vote already? I don't know. Either way:

Vote: Kartoffelkopf

This is a fair point, Kells, but I'm not ready to join another one of your potential bandwagons just yet. Especially when there's plenty of reason to still suspect you. But I suppose, since Kart's random statement was really weird, I could offer:

FoS: Kart

[La Chevre!]

Hell, Pete's point isn't bad either.

FoS: Irrefutable

[felltir]

New person question: what does FoS actually stand for?

Also, I'm still thinking Kellsbells is more suspicious.

[La Chevre!]

I believe it means finger of suspicion. I also believe it's purely informal and not used in vote counts.

And do you have any reason to vote for Kellsbells other than what you already said?

[felltir]

Nope. She's given me no reason to suspect her less. But no-one has overtaken her. Yet.

[Irrefutable]

Even if Kart is left alive she is acting far too strangely for me to let it slide. Though I have lots of suspicions of other people coming out of nowhere like that to make a rediculous assertion then disapearing again is just too strange. If she is mafia i have no idea if it implicates CV or partially clears him as im not too sure how into double bluffs everyone is.

Im still very suspicious of CV but Kart is just too much of a risk to be left alive in my opinion.

Vote : Kartoffelkopf

[Irrefutable]

Just saw Mr Petes accusation.

Ive been 'relentlessly' attacking CVSoul for the reasons I think ive already given. He voted for the first person who was singled out by someone else for reasons other than random voting and didn't even attempt to justify his vote. He even seemed to attempt flattery rather than give a decent argument by saying he was going with the person who sounded cleverest.

He then attempted to dismiss any suspicious behavior on his part as 'Noobishness' which sounds like too much of a cop out excuse when people were getting too suspicious.

He then wrote an accusatory post against me accusing me of writing 'educated-looking accusations with no evidence'. Accussing someone of having no evidence is pointing out the obvious rather unless you are expecting a spontanious confession. He then after writing a fairly convincing piece about my suspicious nature but refused to actually vote for me, rather as though he was too worried about stiring up unpleasentness to actually formalise his suspicions.

[Irrefutable]

And I completely forgot to mention him and Kart. In his rant against me he finished with a feeble defense of Kart saying that it was unlikely to be suspicious and more likely to be lazyness. Kart posted soon after with a utterly blunt counter defense of CV. This is a leap of the imagination but it just looks like CV was trying to buy time for his co partner to get into the thread as i had already attacked Kart for lurking.

I have written far more than i intented to but thats a fairly complete account of my current suspicions.

[oneofthedragon]

1 for Kellsbells (Felltir)
2 for Kartofflewaffle (Kellsbells, Irrefutable)
1 for Irrefutable (Mr Pete)
(unless I missed unvotes, if so, forgive me)

[CVSoul]

allow me to repeat my point that my cover is perfectly valid, as I wasn't bandwagoning but rather guessing. I could have voted against Kells to the same end, and if she turned out townie we'd be in the exact same spot we are now. The act of guessing quickly without a valid excuse can very easily be explained by my being new.
It's not a cop-out; if you look at it, I didn't do anything wrong or even that suspicious, just stupid.

As for me n' Kart, she's a good friend of mine who actually convinced me to play this in the first place, but otherwise no relation. I can fully expect distraction/whatever as a reason to not post for a while-- more likely forgetting than being lazy. The sudden disappearance could have to do with that we're holding this conversation in the Western daytime, while she lives in Australia and most likely hasn't been online since the last post.

That's not to say I'm not suspicious, as I would also be unsurprised if I were used as a tool.

So as it stands, I'm suspicious of all three of the people that have been voted for. Any of them could be Mafia.

this will be called a cop out excuse: In the event that we do get it wrong, which is more likely than not in this case, I would want to prep for the next round. Irrefutable seems not only convinced that I'm mafia (which I'm not), but also hell-bent on getting everyone else to agree with him. So, should we get it wrong this time, I would go next time, leading to a mafia shutout.
Not to mention the fact that Irrefutable seems pretty scummy to me anyway.
So, the biggest threat in the long run seems to be keeping the suspicious, and otherwise dangerous, Irrefutable in the game.

Vote: Irrefutable

[felltir]

How many votes to lynch?

[oneofthedragon]

1 for Kellsbells (Felltir)
2 for Kartofflewaffle (Kellsbells, Irrefutable)
2 for Irrefutable (Mr Pete Cvsoul)
4 to lynch

[La Chevre!]

):

[oneofthedragon]

Looks like we lost some posts... I'm going to ask everyone to revote (if possible).

[felltir]

VOTE: Kellsbells

[kellsbells]

ARGH, my massively detailed, incredibly long, and insanely awesome post is lost forever. Damn.

Anyway, short and sweet: My suspicions of Kart and CVSoul are somewhat diminished now, after CV's explanation... And pretty much everyone is suspicious to me now. Felltir is certainly pushing for my lynching, but I can't say I blame him too much. I have NO IDEA why I was not killed last night (I'm pretty sure there was a post questioning this very thing, but I believe it's also been erased). Really, I would have been the obvious target for the mob last night, not Jesse. There are only two reasons why they would have killed him, instead of me:

Option 1: They are hoping that the very fact of my survival will incriminate me and I will get lynched.

Option 2: Jesse was on to something, so they killed him before he got too close to the truth.

Oh, and I suppose there's an Option 3: They just weren't really thinking about it and/or just felt like killing someone unexpected.

[La Chevre!]

Before anything else, let me reaffirm my FoS: Kellsbells that died in the forum upgrades.

Now...

Option 1: They are hoping that the very fact of my survival will incriminate me and I will get lynched.

I've had similar thoughts, and as far as I'm concerned this is the main reason you should live even if I am suspicious of you. It would play perfectly for the mafia if you weren't one of them and we were convinced you should be dead or scum.

Option 2: Jesse was on to something, so they killed him before he got too close to the truth.

I don't know if this makes so much sense. Jesse didn't seem to be saying much except that he thought it a good idea to possibly lynch the ICs, which actually doesn't bode too well for you; perhaps you killed Jesse to try to protect yourself from that line of reasoning.

All I know is I still need to think.

[CVSoul]

Looks like we lost some posts... I'm going to ask everyone to revote (if possible).

My vote was for Irrefutable.

I'm going to agree with Chevre on the Kells issue-- that first option makes sense to me for the time being.

[kellsbells]

Option 2: Jesse was on to something, so they killed him before he got too close to the truth.

I don't know if this makes so much sense. Jesse didn't seem to be saying much except that he thought it a good idea to possibly lynch the ICs, which actually doesn't bode too well for you; perhaps you killed Jesse to try to protect yourself from that line of reasoning.

Yeah, you're right. I actually hadn't reread Jesse's posts when I said that; going back shows me that all Jesse did was suggest that one or more of the ICs were mafia (which I don't blame him for, I sure thought MaJ was) and then question Felltir's vote on MaJ after Jesse himself had just unvoted. Hmmm.

Actually, reading back those Day 1 posts is making me suspicious. These two in particular don't sit well with me:

This being my first game, I'm gonna go ahead and vote with the experienced person who sounds the smartest. And, if MaJ turns out to be a townie, kells will suffer greatly in the next day regardless of the night phase. So, I'll agree with kells for the time being.

Vote: MaJ (pending feeling like an idiot later)

I added the bold for emphasis. I don't know about you guys, but this reads like a threat to me, and not some sane townie logic. Nobody else at that point was holding me responsible for MaJ... Heck, it wasn't my fault I was the first vote on him. But here CV seems intent on getting me lynched if MaJ turns up townie, which would be incredibly convenient were he scum...

I think they're scum, and working together. I'm gonna

Unvote

Vote MAJ

It would have been BEYOND unlikely that the mods would allow both of the IC players to be the mafia together. I kind of see where Felltir is coming from that MaJ and I were accusing each other quite a bit, but I still think that theory is kind of farfetched. It's possible it was just an excuse to bandwagon on MaJ, while appearing to have a well-reasoned plan.

...Then again, even I think I may be overanalyzing all of this. Once you play enough Mafia, you can get vibes about the other players and compare to how they usually play... but nobody in this game is used to anyone's playing style (except me and MaJ of course), so my scumdar is not working so well this round. Oh well, maybe somebody will gain something from my rather vague analysis. Here's hoping!

[CVSoul]

Augh, kells! You had to make me go and fear you again.

Actually, reading back those Day 1 posts is making me suspicious. These two in particular don't sit well with me:

This being my first game, I'm gonna go ahead and vote with the experienced person who sounds the smartest. And, if MaJ turns out to be a townie, kells will suffer greatly in the next day regardless of the night phase. So, I'll agree with kells for the time being.

Vote: MaJ (pending feeling like an idiot later)

I added the bold for emphasis. I don't know about you guys, but this reads like a threat to me, and not some sane townie logic. Nobody else at that point was holding me responsible for MaJ... Heck, it wasn't my fault I was the first vote on him. But here CV seems intent on getting me lynched if MaJ turns up townie, which would be incredibly convenient were he scum...

you don't get it. If you read your post that prompted me to vote for MaJ in the first place, you'd have seen that your initial vote hinged on one of you being scum-- therefore, based on that one post, you should be lynched now. Fortunately for you, you weren't the only one with an opinion that round-- therefore, MaJ's innocence does not guarantee your guilt.

I think they're scum, and working together. I'm gonna

Unvote

Vote MAJ

It would have been BEYOND unlikely that the mods would allow both of the IC players to be the mafia together. I kind of see where Felltir is coming from that MaJ and I were accusing each other quite a bit, but I still think that theory is kind of farfetched. It's possible it was just an excuse to bandwagon on MaJ, while appearing to have a well-reasoned plan.

It's beyond unlikely that you'd both be mafia. But guess what-- one of you isn't! therefore, there is a perfectly reasonable chance that you're scum. Bringing up the point that MaJ's townie status enables your mafia status was a poor choice.


So... Now I'm suspicious of you again.
I'm not going to unvote just yet, but I probably could depending on what everyone else thinks.

[kellsbells]

CV, note my use of "would have been" beyond unlikely. I get that it's possible for me to be mafia because MaJ definitely wasn't, but what I was trying to point out is that Felltir's argument was strange. WHEN MAJ WAS STILL ALIVE, Felltir suspected that MaJ and I were both Mafia. Why would anyone believe that? Even if the random role assignment had come up that way, I doubt the mods would have allowed the only two IC players to be scum together. So I was questioning Felltir's logic THEN, not the possibility NOW. And the part that bothered me most was that Jesse asked Felltir the same thing right after that post, and Felltir never answered. Jesse died last night. Coincidence? I'm not sure. So maybe Option 2 wasn't so unlikely after all...

FoS: Felltir

...At least until he can give me a reasonable explanation.

[felltir]

I didn't believe you were both mafia. I believed, and still do, that one of you was. I just picked wrong, and MAJ unfortunately pain the consequences. And I don't see where Jesse ever asked me that question.

I don't know if roleclaiming is allowed, can someone tell me?

[Megatriorchis]

I've decided to allow roleclaiming in this game.

[Megatriorchis]

I've also decided to put a time limit on the game. You've got 24 hours to lynch someone.

[felltir]

I'm the doctor. I have a great plan to find out the mafia, but it ONLY works if we kill Kells now.

[Mr Pete]

Only the reaffirmed votes count? (damnable consequences of the upgrade)

so:

1 for Kells (Felltir)
1 for Irrefutable (CVSoul)

[Irrefutable]

This being only my second game im not entirely sure i have complete comprehension of the rules but if you are the doctor isn't there a 50% chance of there being a mob role blocker who can just cancel your power?

[Mr Pete]

SZJ, ninjas!

Elaborate on this plan and we shall see.

I'm trying to decide whether to vote kells or Irrefutable right now.

FoS: them 2

[Megatriorchis]

Yes, re-affirmed votes count. So if you want your votes to count by tomorrow, you need to revote.

[Mr Pete]

Good point Irrefutable, though I cant see a plan to root out the mob involving the doctors power either way

[felltir]

Good point Irrefutable, though I cant see a plan to root out the mob involving the doctors power either way

If I tell you how, it doesn't work.

[CVSoul]

well, with the time limit, as well as wanting to have the Doctor on my side, I'll move my vote.

Unvote Irrefutable
Vote Kellsbells

[Mr Pete]

Well, this seems to be the only way to move the game on.

Though be warned Felltir, if the strategy doesn't become apparant soon suspicions will be raised.

Vote: Kells

[oneofthedragon]

3 kells
4 to lynch

[La Chevre!]

I shall not drop the hammer on this farce. Kells may well be mafia; it makes perfect sense. But I will not go along with this plan, which has not been articulated at all, based on Felltir's sudden declaration that he is the doctor.

First off, Felltir, if you really are the doctor, by claiming this the mafia will probably come after you. This won't be as bad if you're allowed to protect yourself, but I don't think that's in the rules.

I think it's feasible that Felltir is actually scum, and parading as the doctor in order to get rid of Kells, who may well be our best line of defense. It wouldn't be for the purposes of immediate self-protection since I don't think anyone has put any votes on him, but it would help him tremendously if he and his mafia ally could gang up on us with no ICs for guidance.

I'm not going to vote for Felltir in case he actually is the doctor and is just desperate to get rid of Kells, who he is convinced is scum. I'll be back here within 24 hours. But I think it's clearly time to focus more upon Kells and Felltir.

[felltir]

I shall not drop the hammer on this farce. Kells may well be mafia; it makes perfect sense. But I will not go along with this plan, which has not been articulated at all, based on Felltir's sudden declaration that he is the doctor.

First off, Felltir, if you really are the doctor, by claiming this the mafia will probably come after you. This won't be as bad if you're allowed to protect yourself, but I don't think that's in the rules.

I think it's feasible that Felltir is actually scum, and parading as the doctor in order to get rid of Kells, who may well be our best line of defense. It wouldn't be for the purposes of immediate self-protection since I don't think anyone has put any votes on him, but it would help him tremendously if he and his mafia ally could gang up on us with no ICs for guidance.

I'm not going to vote for Felltir in case he actually is the doctor and is just desperate to get rid of Kells, who he is convinced is scum. I'll be back here within 24 hours. But I think it's clearly time to focus more upon Kells and Felltir.

Since I am the doctor, the mafia may not kill me, because not killing me makes it look exactely like I am scum. I can't protect myself, but I can protect others. Now, having stated this, I am half suspicious I'll be killed, and half that they won't kill me even though I've stated why they're not doing it.