Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

[pyroman]

So i was watching firefly the other day and I began to wonder who would win if the two were pitted against each other. Both Are highly resource full and great fighters. While mal would own han in a fist fight the Falcon would have little trouble taking out serenity. After pondering such things for i while i realized i couldn't decide who would win and feel it would be much more likely the two would get together have a few drinks and talk about old stories from the many jobs they've had. what does everyone else think?

[LittleKey]

Well I don't watch firefly, so I'm kinda biased towards han solo. dude, the guy was cryogenically frozen and lived through it. you don't mess with him.

[headprogrammingczar]

Mal was tortured by the sickest Russian dude since Stalin. He spent the whole time telling his pilot he wanted to bang his wife.

[crazyjimbo]

Mal would start on a witty and very amusing speech. All attention would be on him and we'd all be thinking how cool and awesome he is. A few chinese expletives later and we'd be in love.

Han would shoot him.

(But Mal would still be cooler.)

[1hitcombo]

Han would shoot first.

I think Mal has a sweeter gun.

Han is probably a better shot.

Mal is more resourceful simply because of his portrayals of leadership and wit in the series. Han doesn't do much outsmarting.

In a crew battle...that comes down to River v Luke. I think Luke has the upperhand there.

Anora is hotter than Leia.

[pyroman]

Anora is hotter than Leia.

which Leia? Slave girl Leia or cinnabon Leia?

[rinsimyaldee]

Mal. Mal. han would be all like " i can make the kessel run in...blablabla" and then mal would be like, "*something in chinese*" and then be like *blam* and shot han right in the face. But the falcon would destroy serenity in a fight, considering serenity isnt armed. plus Mal fought in a war. and i mean real war, not a pansy ass, i still have all the comforts of home in my fancy spaceship war. in a fistfight, mal, all the way. in a firefight, mal, cause he'd have zoe and jayne as well, whereas all han would have is some rabid teddy bears and a toy laser. I dont know, but mal is just cooler than han, and as was soooo well put, Anora is waaaay hotter than leia. Morena Baccarin is awesome.

[hideki101]

I agree that Mal is probably cooler than Han, but in an actual fight, I'm thinking Han would win. As said before, the Falcon is so much stronger than the Serenity, that it would be absolutely no contest. Hand to hand, Mal would win, due to his insane pain tolerance and the fact that he beat a trained operative with a sword. Both Han and Mal are extremely proficient at firearms, especially with pistols. I think Han has the upper hand here: he shoots first.
As for companionship, I think (Jedi knight)Luke could take on the entire Serenity crew all by himself (save psycho River. Maybe.)

Although, this really comes from a rabid Star Wars fanboy, and with extensive knowledge of Han's exploits in the EU. I am still a fan of Firefly/Serenity, but I don't have the same access to the Firefly EU (is it an EU? aren't the comics published by Joss?)

[headprogrammingczar]

But Luke would never be able to kill Book, who would talk Luke out of it with his smooth demeanor. River is secretly a genius in addition to being "Jet Lee+9000 Ninjas". She would probably kill Luke with her brain.

[1hitcombo]

I don't remember river being able to do anything with her mind except read other people's minds.

That being said, Luke could just use the force. On everyone.

I like how this has degenerated into a firefly v star wars thread. Then again I shouldn't be surprised that the word "degenerate" and this forum go hand in hand.

[hideki101]

I don't remember river being able to do anything with her mind except read other people's minds.

That being said, Luke could just use the force. On everyone.

I like how this has degenerated into a firefly v star wars thread. Then again I shouldn't be surprised that the word "degenerate" and this forum go hand in hand.

Sorry about that, the first time someone decided to post something other than Han and Mal's exploits, that's when it started degenerating. Back to Pure Han vs. Mal:

Mal wins in hand to hand, pain tolerance, and subjectively, coolness.

Solo wins in ship to ship, technology proficiency, and most likely wins in a gunbattle.

Either way, they're both rebels, and most likely will get along to the dismay of the Alliance(large) and the Empire (especially if exposure to Star Wars technology has upgraded the Serenity in any way).

[brodieboy255]

Solo wins in ship to ship, technology proficiency, and most likely wins in a gunbattle.

Depends how you define win. Mal has more backup that are proficient with guns, and also has this innate ability to dodge gunfire. Even if Han took out Mal, his crew would win purely on numbers

[hideki101]

Solo wins in ship to ship, technology proficiency, and most likely wins in a gunbattle.

Depends how you define win. Mal has more backup that are proficient with guns, and also has this innate ability to dodge gunfire. Even if Han took out Mal, his crew would win purely on numbers

I am trying to eliminate any mention of other crew here. ONLY Solo vs. Reynolds. So to my mind, the backup argument fails.

Also, outside of the ridiculous pilot episode where they just STAND THERE with people three meters away shooting, Mal has been shot in "Out of Gas." The thing going for Mal is the amount of damage he can take. As far as I can tell in the actual movies, Solo has never been shot.

[Wulf]

Hit this from a different angle. Mal and Han have no idealogical reason to fight eachother, so why are they fighting? I can only think of being them pitted against eachother by some sadist in gladiator fashion, or they are competing over a job or chance at profit.

If it's gladiator type fight, anything hand to hand Mal is going to win, in a gunfight Solo will shoot first. Also Solo's gun is more advanced than Mal's.

If the competition is over a job or some prize, I think I have to go with Mal. Strategy, outhinking the other guy, and just finding a way seem to be Mal's specialty. Solo's strengths are piloting skill and shooting first.

[Chai Kovsky]

A lot of people are saying that Han would beat Mal in a gunfight, but I just remember this:

Spoiler:

Mal shot Dobson square in the face while he was holding a hostage from 20 feet away while walking. And didn't even blink.

[Savvycow]

All the episodes of Firefly are on Hulu.

But anyway, MALCOMB FTW.

Seriously, Han Solo has his teddybear, and Reynolds kicked a man into the engine of his ship.

[hopefulcynic]

I doubt that the two would ever have reason to fight, but here's my comparison of them

Fistfight: Mal

Spacefight: Han. As has been noted, the Falcon has weapons. I'd argue that just as important is the fact that Han flies the Falcon, while Mal is simply the captain of Serenity, so even if their ships were equal, Han would still hold the edge.

Crew on crew: very interesting. what counts as Han's crew? Episode IV, with Chewie, Leia, Luke, and Obi Wan? Or is he General Solo, and can command troops? Under either of those circumstances, he wins. If we take a far less expansive view of his crew, and its just him, Chewie, and Leia, he loses.
As I see it, once the rosters are set, the real question here would be River v Luke. If Luke can beat River, he can take everyone else all at once. If River beats Luke, there are no more Jedi and Han doesn't have numbers on his side, then he gets overwhelmed.

War: Solo. Victorious general beats defeated sergeant.

One-on-one gunfight - Depends on the circumstances. Mal's better in a pitched battle, but Han has a habit of shooting first and winning personal encounters.

Lines: two words "I know"
Don't get me wrong, Mal has some awesome lines, but Solo wins on grounds of improv.

[hideki101]

Seriously, Han Solo has his teddybear, and Reynolds kicked a man into the engine of his ship.

That "teddybear" can take off both your arms and beat you over the head with the bloody stumps. Respect Chewie.

[Gojoe]

Mal wins. Han tries to talk before the battle happens. If mal is pissed, he does not lose his cool, he just shoots you. Hands down BAM.

Han is dead.

[Savvycow]

Seriously, Han Solo has his teddybear, and Reynolds kicked a man into the engine of his ship.

That "teddybear" can take off both your arms and beat you over the head with the bloody stumps. Respect Chewie.

But that's Chewie.

NOT Han.

[hideki101]

Seriously, Han Solo has his teddybear, and Reynolds kicked a man into the engine of his ship.

That "teddybear" can take off both your arms and beat you over the head with the bloody stumps. Respect Chewie.

But that's Chewie.

NOT Han.

So why did you bring him up in the first place?

Mal wins. Han tries to talk before the battle happens. If mal is pissed, he does not lose his cool, he just shoots you. Hands down BAM.

Han is dead.

Not too sure about this. Han has a tendency to shoot first.

[telcontar42]

I don't think you can say one would beat the other, because really Malcolm Reynolds in Han Solo. They are both roguish, sarcastic, badasses that are afraid to express their feelings, which leads to bickering with their romantic interest. They both captain a ship that is old and beat up, but that they swear performs exceptionally. They are both smugglers that get into trouble with both criminal bosses and the authorities. They both supplement their smuggling profits by picking up an interesting group of passengers. I'm sure I could continue.

Don't get me wrong. I love firefly and Mal is an awesome character, but he isn't an original character. Mal is pretty much Nathan Fillion as Han Solo. So comparing Mal and Han, I don't think it really works.

[Wulf]

One-on-one gunfight - Depends on the circumstances. Mal's better in a pitched battle, but Han has a habit of shooting first and winning personal encounters.

Actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BvP99-Ci6k (still a noob and so not linking)

Just watch the last 8 seconds. Mal is also a shoot-firsterer

Lines: two words "I know"
Don't get me wrong, Mal has some awesome lines, but Solo wins on grounds of improv.

Mal also does the improv...

Joss Whedon: I need a line here. Say something Mal would say.

Mal's improve line on the mule - "Faster would be better!!"

Joss Whedon: See, why do I spend so much time writing scripts, I should just let you make things up.

[hopefulcynic]

One-on-one gunfight - Depends on the circumstances. Mal's better in a pitched battle, but Han has a habit of shooting first and winning personal encounters.

Actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BvP99-Ci6k (still a noob and so not linking)

Just watch the last 8 seconds. Mal is also a shoot-firsterer

never said Mal didn't have a habit of shooting first, just said that Han did, and implied that Han was better at it.

Lines: two words "I know"
Don't get me wrong, Mal has some awesome lines, but Solo wins on grounds of improv.

Mal also does the improv...

Joss Whedon: I need a line here. Say something Mal would say.

Mal's improve line on the mule - "Faster would be better!!"

Joss Whedon: See, why do I spend so much time writing scripts, I should just let you make things up.[/quote]

Let's compare the quality of those improvs. "I know" is one of the best lines in Star Wars. "Faster would be better" is not one of Mal's best lines, and is not nearly as good as "I know"

[Clumpy]

Mal is more Solo than Solo. Still, Solo and Ford were the prototype.

[Savvycow]

But that's Chewie.

Whoops

Sorry XD

[Eleni]

never said Mal didn't have a habit of shooting first, just said that Han did, and implied that Han was better at it.

I've gotta side with Mal on this one. So Han shoots Greedo under the table after their conversation had gone on long enough. Mal shoots Dobson, who even has a hostage at the time, the second he steps on the ship without a moment of hesitation. That seems like a clear win for Mal to me. And any other Han-shoots-first moments I didn't find particularly memorable (though you're welcome to remind me ).

"I know" is one of the best lines in Star Wars.

Not saying much.

"Faster would be better" is not one of Mal's best lines

Again, not saying much. One could say that there are more good, hilarious, clever lines in an episode of Firefly than there are in all the Star Wars movies and not be too far off. I'm not even too sure what's so great about "I know", other than that Harrison Ford (not Han Solo...) came up with it himself. In any case, we were comparing Han and Mal, weren't we, not Harrison Ford and Nathan Fillion? If we're comparing the two actors for improv humor, based on interviews I've seen of each of them, I'd have to give the edge to Fillion.

That said, even though the arguments I just made were in support of Mal, if the two had cause to fight, I'd probably bet on Han. Han just seems like the better fighter, perhaps because the nature of Firefly means Mal is a little goofier and clumsier (he's not the best fighter on his crew, anyway). But it is a tough choice; I love both of them.

[EvanED]

If we're comparing the two actors for improv humor, based on interviews I've seen of each of them, I'd have to give the edge to Fillion.

The "we're all fine down here, how are you" discussion in ANH following the invasion of the cell block was pretty fantastic though, as is Indiana Jones shooting the sword guy.

[Hentzau]

Mal wins, hands down. Quite simply, because he is Han Solo.

If you watch 'Alien:Resurrection' (which bears a strong Joss Whedon mark) there's half the 'Firefly' crew there in blatant prototype (Ripley in particular is River before River) but not really a definitve Mal. On the bonus material for 'Serenity' Joss Whedon talks about how everything reminds him of 'Star Wars', so I'd make the leap that Mal is the best kind of copy+paste from Han Solo. He therefore wins because he's had the holes plugged in his skillset and psychological plausibility in the intervening 30 years or so.

Son of smeg, I think I just referenced the bonus footage to argue a sci-fi 'who would win?' argument. If you'll excuse me I will now perform a pennance or twenty.

[Celedos]

(((LOong post. Skip if you don't want to waste 5/10 minutes)))

Hmm... I'd vote for Solo. But not directly because of skill (since they're quite similar there), but on ideology. (Also, a few spoilers for SW, 'cuz i can't believe anyone who can use the tubes hasn't seen them).

Mal and Han are both chaotic good (a case could be made for Mal being Legal good, just not adhering to Firefly's established laws, but since the character has broken both sets of law {remember the beggining fo the Serenity flick} i'd go for the Chaotic good alternative). Yet, Mal clearly leans a lot on his good side, helping people as he goes along (even going out of his way to do so http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Train_Job), and this often gets him in troubles (Mal can be pretty smart, but he still attracts trouble by the truckload).

Han, who pretty much begins mercenary (he just agreed to transport Luke and Kenobi because he was getting paid, and rescuing Leia for the awesome bounty promised to him by Luke), gets closer to his good side as the plot moves forward (

Spoiler:

Even breaking down in one of the books after Chewie's death

), yet he still keeps the perks for being chaotic (Remeber the scene with Lando after the protagonists get captured?). This offers an advantage at planning level, but a minimal one (since Mal can be really creative in his plans, as evidenced in the Serenity movie).

Then what tips the scale? Each character intrinsic randomness. Han has a notable story of screw-ups, but they're never due to him being really unlucky. They are split between calculated risk (jettisoning Jabba's cargo before ep IV) or his lack of wits (This spoiler contains the radio conversation between Solo and an Imperial ST, just in case someone needs their memory jogged))

Spoiler:

[Han answers the intercom after comandeering an attack station]
Han Solo: [sounding official] Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
Voice: What happened?
Han Solo: [getting nervous] Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
Voice: We're sending a squad up.
Han Solo: Uh, uh... negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.
Voice: Who is this? What's your operating number?
Han Solo: Uh...
[Han shoots the intercom]
Han Solo: [muttering] Boring conversation, anyway.

On the other hand we have Mal, a man so unlucky that in the dice and paper version of Firefly he has his own "perk" about it (i can't remember the name of said perk, but i'm sure it's in the book). While it's true that Mal survives thanks to a combination of skill and luck, the amount of luck he needs is much greater than Han's requirement (and script armor not applying, of course).

[FrankManic]

I'm pretty sure they would get along famously, wander off to a canteen to get drunk, then go rob the local government something fierce.

[ian]

This spoiler contains the radio conversation between Solo and an Imperial ST, just in case someone needs their memory jogged

Not to be pedantic (well okay I am) but I'd think that would have been an officer or similar on the other end rather than a stormtooper

Anyway, a lot of people's arguments seem so anecdotal (Han did this hear but Mal topped it by doing this here) that they can't really be taken into consideration. However the general consensus that Han would win in a ship battle (in equal ships), Mal would win in a fist fight, and it would be pretty even in a gun battle, seem about right to me.

[Uriel]

Both Are highly resource full and great fighters. While mal would own han in a fist fight the Falcon would have little trouble taking out serenity.

fist to fist reynolds would certainly win.

the falcon would take out serenity?
where would that be fair?
one of the fastest ship in starwars, heavy gunned vs an old transporter?
and mal isn't even a pilot....

[Luthen]

Both Are highly resource full and great fighters. While mal would own han in a fist fight the Falcon would have little trouble taking out serenity.

fist to fist reynolds would certainly win.

the falcon would take out serenity?
where would that be fair?
one of the fastest ship in starwars, heavy gunned vs an old transporter?
and mal isn't even a pilot....

Haven't Mal and the crew used the burst once or twice as a weapon. Admittedly a short range, semi-suicidal one but a weapon nonetheless.

[el_loco_avs]

/thread?

[Weezer]

I think Mal would win going by the fact that in the movies Han never showed any special prowess with guns, he showed his cleverness and ingenuity but his crowning moment with his pistol was shooting someone from about 3 feet away. However Mal has demonstrated his ability with a sword and pistol many times as has already discussed.

[Pa-Patch]

Definitely Mal in terms of coolness.

If it comes down to a fight, 1v1 is probably Mal, Han's never shown us any talent.

Crew fight is easily Mal. We don't have any reason to think a light-saber would be much protection against bullets, and definitely wouldn't cut it if he was shot at from both sides at once. Even if he was bullet-proof I still give River some pretty good odds, given that Luke has never really shown himself to be very good at fighting outside of deflecting lasers. The rest of the crew is a simple matter of multiple trained soldiers with guns versus an ape with a crossbow. Mal's side has a medic among their non-fighters, too.

Space fight Serenity goes down, but that's just not fair.

Oh, and Mal doesn't lose because of bad luck. Mal wins in spite of bad luck.

[Timequake]

Fist-fight: Mal, hands down.
Gunfight: This would be close, but if both of them expected to be fighting, I'd say Mal would win. He's definitely more accurate, and more used to realistic fights.
Ship battle: Really, this would be tough to compare. If they were both alone, then neither would be able to shoot (Serenity has no guns, the Falcon's guns aren't accessible from the cockpit(correct me if that part is wrong)) or do much to outmaneuver each other (Serenity's bag of trickses like the Crazy Ivan from the pilot episode require someone in the engine room, and the Falcon's strength isn't so much outmaneuvering other ships as it is safely flying through dangerous areas). So, we'll assume that both have their crew. (For the Falcon, this means both guns are occupied, presumably by Luke and Chewie) Wash is a far better pilot than Han. Serenity can outmaneuver the Falcon easily, especially with Wash and Kaylee working together. However, they'd have trouble avoiding the guns, which are more accurate and have a higher rate of fire than any ship Serenity has come up against (mainly Reavers, very few of which can keep up a steady barrage of gunfire, and even fewer of which can actually hit anything). I'd have to go with Solo in this one, because Serenity doesn't tend to fare well against significant firepower (disabled at the end of the battle on Mr. Universe's world).

[luketheduke]

Anora

That's IT, I'm going to bed.

[BlackSails]

Nobody wins. They take a few potshots at each other, then go get uproariously drunk.