Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

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Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mrandrewv » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:03 pm UTC

http://forum.deviantart.com/community/c ... 5#comments

Basically one of the members has come out as a non-offending paedophile.

He has never abused any children and he is adamant that he never will.

Reactions have been surprisingly positive, although there is a rival thread, started by a Nazi of all things, that says how automatically evil he is, and how he should be locked up.

My own thoughts are these: I think it's great that he came out, and very brave. Look we are never going to deal with the massive child abuse in society unless we can get to paedophiles before they offend, and do what we can to ensure that they never do.

Punishing the ones who do offend isn't a problem, if anything the punishment system has gone too far, and has started punishing individuals for no good reason (case in point: in some states you can get on a sex-offender list for 10 years just for urinating in public, or mooning a passing tour bus).

Also there isn't any real research on this topic, at least not that my limited resources can find. So those who say that it is inevitable that he will offend are really just making stuff up.

What are your thoughts?
It's all very interesting...

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby TheStranger » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:21 pm UTC

I'm not sure about some of his language use...

Nevertheless, I wish it did not have to be this way. I wish it were no different than admitting to being homosexual, in light of the increasing amount of tolerance thereof.


This isn't an orientation... it is a psychological disorder. It's not 'coming out' its 'admitting that I have a problem.'
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mrandrewv » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:32 pm UTC

Well I see what you mean, but I also get his point.

I think he is saying that he wishes there was no stigma attached to the ADMISSION of the problem, but only on giving in to the problem.

Dunno if that makes sense...
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby TheStranger » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:43 pm UTC

mrandrewv wrote:Well I see what you mean, but I also get his point.

I think he is saying that he wishes there was no stigma attached to the ADMISSION of the problem, but only on giving in to the problem.

Dunno if that makes sense...


A better analogy would be drug use... or some other addiction.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Game_boy » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:50 pm UTC

It seems so common that there must be a biological explanation (like homosexuality has?). Otherwise it wouldn't have survived.

Is it observed in animals?
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:50 pm UTC

What makes you think the psychological aspects to paedophilia are any different then homosexuality? The only problem with paedophilia is that there is no real way for the child to give consent, thus it's inherently wrong and abusive to ever commit such an act. And you can't really be addicted to something you've never done...

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mrandrewv » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:03 pm UTC

My own theory is that the cause is just like the cause of everything else:
Push factors, and pull factors.

There may be a genetic predisposition but that isn't going to be the only factor at work.

What I do know for sure is that we need to do more to assist those individuals like the DA poster in not giving in to the disorder.

That is the only way we are going to beat this thing, or even make any inroads into it.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:49 pm UTC

What I want to know is....

Is he attracted to children... or loli?

They're entirely different things because the first is the the attraction of the state of being a child (If A has the property of being a child, then B) whereas the latter is being attracted to things that look and perhaps act in a childish or young way (If A has the properties similar to a child, regardless of age, then B).

I'm pretty sure most people would use it like the latter, but it's ambiguous as it's phrased right now.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby TheStranger » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:50 pm UTC

Bubbles McCoy wrote:What makes you think the psychological aspects to paedophilia are any different then homosexuality? The only problem with paedophilia is that there is no real way for the child to give consent, thus it's inherently wrong and abusive to ever commit such an act. And you can't really be addicted to something you've never done...


so paedophilia is not a psychological disorder?

I was stating that the comparison of homosexuality (not a psychological disorder) to paedophilia (a psychological disorder) is not a good comparison. Rather that comparing it to an addiction (another psychological disorder) would be better.

If a guy tells me he is gay then all it does is explain why he was looking at my arse. If a guy tells me that he is hooked on meth then I wonder how to get him the treatment he needs.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mrandrewv » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

Psycholoical disorders are diagnosed according to the DSM-IV (TR), so yes it is an disorder, and no an orientation.

But it is an interesting point that up until the DSM III homosexuality was classified as a disorder as well ;)

Now I am not saying that homosexuality is a disorder, and I am also not saying that paedophilia is the same as homosexuality.

But I am saying that our understanding of these things shifts, and it can shift pretty quickly.

Let's hope that in another 10 years time merely having the disorder will NOT be considered as bad as actually going out and having sexual relations with children.

Gelsamel: I'm sorry, I really dunno what you mean, can you elaborate please? :)
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Kachi » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:26 pm UTC

You have to keep in mind that much of what is considered pedophilia now was commonly encouraged practice in many nations not all too long ago and still is in some places. Pedophilia is an unusual disorder/orientation because it hinges entirely on the social context of the individual. And not that I enjoy semantic debates, but I do think it's accurate to consider it both a sexual orientation and a disorder (when it interferes with a person's wellbeing). We really don't need to find a perfect analogy for it (homosexuality/psychological disorders). Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Artemisia » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

Kachi wrote: Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

Im a little ambiguous on this. As a victim of child abuse, I am not very willing to admit it's something society should be fine with, even if it's unpracticed. Some paedophiles are under the impression that children are not harmed when the sex is performed in a friendly, non-pushing way. Some of them even claim to have good experiences as a child. I, however, can state I did not like what was happening, and experienced great shame when I finally understood what it was.

On the other hand, it can't be right not to be able to talk about a sexual preference/fetish (?) because it is taboo. It might help if people are able to talk in order to control it, and not harm children.

Oh by the by, in NL there has been a political party which was referred to as the paedophile-party since they wanted to approve sex with kids and child porn (thus said the media - I dont know what their own words/claims were exactly). They didn't make it to the official election. NL however did approve a party which stood up for the rights of animals. I don't know what that says about my home country tho...
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:04 pm UTC

I'd be interested in discovering how many pedophiles (excuse my American spelling) are otherwise entirely asexual, or actually exclusively attracted to children. It's hard to tell where to draw the line between paraphilia and orientation, since fetishes can grow strong enough to be a necessity for sexual excitement, except that they're usually agreed upon as being nurture-based, rather than nature.

I think the stigma against non-acting pedophiles is an unfortunate thing. Just as most of us with non-deviant sexual predispositions are capable of exercising self control, I find it hard to believe that there aren't plenty of pedophiles who would never dream of actually assaulting a child. Sexual attraction is a tricky thing and, most of the time, can't be helped. I think it would be horrifying to be attracted to children against your own will because, even if you would never ever act on it, it could irreversibly change the way people deal with you.

Orientation or paraphilia, though, I think the important thing is that it's involuntary, and we shouldn't stigmatize people for things they can't control.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby qinwamascot » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:14 pm UTC

Personally I don't care either way so long as he isn't abusing anyone. Whether or not it's a psychological disorder seems irrelevant to me. I can call anything a disorder, but that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be treated. I really think that the person can decide for himself. If someone is addicted to something, but doesn't want to quit, I don't think we should force it. Likewise, if he (as he says he has) doesn't particularly want to change, why force it, whether or not we call it a disorder? He certainly shouldn't be punished. So we can call it a disorder or an orientation, but nothing changes.

Is it really a problem at all? So long as he doesn't do anything abusive? I don't think so.

p.s. if anyone hasn't read Lolita it's quite good.

I think what Gel was asking is "Is he attracted to children specifically, or to childish things in general?"
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Kachi » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:40 pm UTC

Im a little ambiguous on this. As a victim of child abuse, I am not very willing to admit it's something society should be fine with, even if it's unpracticed.


Do you want to reword that? Are you suggesting that society should have a problem with people who aren't actually causing problems, but would want to do those things if it didn't actually cause problems? For example, you don't think society should be fine with someone having a rape fantasy, even if they would never actually rape someone? What about daydreaming about robbing a bank, or punching someone you dislike in the face?

I think the issue here is that people can't control it, and it has never been successfully cured. It's been in practice since recorded history and almost certainly before that. Like it or not, these people are here and will continue to be. Writing them off as unacceptable is no way to deal with them.

I have actually pondered the legality and practicality of a sort of pedophile help service. There are countless unreported claims of sexual abuse against children, usually by someone the child knows. The child absolutely will not report these cases often because they don't want the person to go to jail. Perhaps if there was some service that children could go to to report these incidents without the threat of legal recourse for the assailant, they would be more willing to step forward. Then that service could be used as a sort of intermediary to ensure the child's safety and provide help for the assailant.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Ati » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:42 pm UTC

I feel sorry for the guy. The sex drive is fairly fundamental to the human brain, and if it's broken in a way that drives you to harm others, it has to be fairly hellish. That said, it's good that he's not acting on the bits of his brain that are defective, and I hope research allows repair of the damage (assuming he wants it) at some point in the future.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Gunfingers » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

I say good for him for coming out. A non-predator being attracted to kids is bad in the same way it's bad for a non-rapist to be attracted to women.

I remember reading a story somewhere, and since i don't remember where it could just as easily have been fiction, about a pedophile who had himself castrated because he was afraid that someday he'd act on his urges.

Anyway, to show solidarity with this brave fella i'll say this: I like tentacle porn.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby DarkKnightJared » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

Well, I can't really hate the guy--if he's telling the truth, then he hasn't actually harmed a child. I also echo Gelsamel & Rando's questions/ideas. I also wonder what the exact statistics are when it comes to pedophilles that actually attack children, but since there's a heavy stigma for people not to talk about it, it's been almost impossible. Hopefully this could spawn more confessions, and see what the actual statistics are.

Also, I think Kachi's idea for a pedophille help service could potentially be helpful--I imagine that you would have to have to have it pretty heavily linked to social services and the police department, but it could be something that would be both a source for education as well as a sole entity to help kids in those kinds of abuse situations.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mochafairy » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

Kachi wrote:I have actually pondered the legality and practicality of a sort of pedophile help service. There are countless unreported claims of sexual abuse against children, usually by someone the child knows. The child absolutely will not report these cases often because they don't want the person to go to jail. Perhaps if there was some service that children could go to to report these incidents without the threat of legal recourse for the assailant, they would be more willing to step forward. Then that service could be used as a sort of intermediary to ensure the child's safety and provide help for the assailant.


That sounds nice except jail isn't enough of a factoring cause for children to not report. Often the kids are brainwashed into thinking that they are the ones doing something wrong, or if they tell, something terrible will happen and it will be their fault. According to darkness2light.org, the median age for reported abuse is 9 years old. Most children have no concept of rape, especially at that age. They have no idea what's going on and they certainly have no idea that it's not their fault that someone is taking advantage of them.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby felltir » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:10 pm UTC

I am conflicted. On one hand, I really want to say, I feel sorry for this guy, this problem is not his fault, it's great he's told people for support and great that he won't ever offend.

On the other hand, a huge, huge part of me goes "Paedophile. You, you scum, you filth, deserve to burn forever in a firey pit while you're impaled by a thousand spears for even thinking such thoughts." And I can't help that.

I think the first is correct, though.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:30 pm UTC

Felltir, you deserve to burn in a fiery pit for thinking such thoughts! :o

Not really. :P But it makes me very sad that otherwise reasonable people get so angry about things that don't hurt anybody.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby felltir » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:43 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Felltir, you deserve to burn in a fiery pit for thinking such thoughts! :o

Not really. :P But it makes me very sad that otherwise reasonable people get so angry about things that don't hurt anybody.


*shrug* I can't help it. I know it's unreasonable, but after everything...
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby PictureSarah » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Not really. :P But it makes me very sad that otherwise reasonable people get so angry about things that don't hurt anybody.


And if they're just thoughts, then they don't hurt anybody. But if they're voiced to the wrong people, or acted on in any way, that immediately crosses the line into "hurting people." And it can be very easy for those who have been hurt to not have a high tolerance for people with these sorts of proclivities.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Kachi » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

That sounds nice except jail isn't enough of a factoring cause for children to not report. Often the kids are brainwashed into thinking that they are the ones doing something wrong, or if they tell, something terrible will happen and it will be their fault. According to darkness2light.org, the median age for reported abuse is 9 years old. Most children have no concept of rape, especially at that age. They have no idea what's going on and they certainly have no idea that it's not their fault that someone is taking advantage of them.


Well, I don't think I entirely agree with you. Children are unlikely to report abuse by a parent or other close relative, and that is frequently because they don't want to lose that person. Yes, they are often brainwashed, but that's the kind of thing you'd address through advertising for the program. Naturally advertising is important for a program like that for it to be effective, and it's important to educate children at the same time.

I wouldn't want the delicate task of putting together such an ad, but I can pretty well imagine what it would constitute. At 9, many children do know the difference between good touch and bad touch, and will understand that it's not their fault if someone simply explains it to them.

*And I guess my overarching point, is that there are many of these cases, and it certainly could not hurt.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:51 pm UTC

TheStranger wrote:so paedophilia is not a psychological disorder?

I was stating that the comparison of homosexuality (not a psychological disorder) to paedophilia (a psychological disorder) is not a good comparison. Rather that comparing it to an addiction (another psychological disorder) would be better.

If a guy tells me he is gay then all it does is explain why he was looking at my arse. If a guy tells me that he is hooked on meth then I wonder how to get him the treatment he needs.


This really does not make any sense; are you even reading what you write? This man has never had sex with children, he's just admitting to the fact that he's attracted to them, much the same way a gay man can explain why he's looking at your ass regardless of whether or not you'd care to reciprocate that attraction. This is an unusual case since it's impossible for anyone the man is drawn to to be able to return his attraction. The disticntion in your mind is that you automatically assume that simply by being a pedophile this man is disturbed, much like how people thought of homosexuals 60 years ago. You can't be addicted to something you've never done, he just has a highly unfortunate natural inclination to a certain type of human.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Lucrece » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:09 am UTC

I wish I understood this condition more, but I'm not sure as to how to get over my prejudices in order to make a worthwhile post in this thread.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby felltir » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:19 am UTC

PictureSarah wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:Not really. :P But it makes me very sad that otherwise reasonable people get so angry about things that don't hurt anybody.


And if they're just thoughts, then they don't hurt anybody. But if they're voiced to the wrong people, or acted on in any way, that immediately crosses the line into "hurting people." And it can be very easy for those who have been hurt to not have a high tolerance for people with these sorts of proclivities.


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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Falmarri » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:36 am UTC

Artemisia wrote:
Kachi wrote: Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

I, however, can state I did not like what was happening, and experienced great shame when I finally understood what it was.


I hope this doesn't start a shitstorm and I don't mean to be personal here, this is purely meant hypothetically and theoretically. But are you sure that experiencing great shame and disliking what happened is inherent? Or is it because society says it's bad, so you automatically feel bad about it? What I'm asking is, why do those of you who think that is inherently impossible to have any sexual contact with any "underage" person without it being harmful think that?

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Minchandre » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:53 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:
Artemisia wrote:
Kachi wrote: Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

I, however, can state I did not like what was happening, and experienced great shame when I finally understood what it was.


I hope this doesn't start a shitstorm and I don't mean to be personal here, this is purely meant hypothetically and theoretically. But are you sure that experiencing great shame and disliking what happened is inherent? Or is it because society says it's bad, so you automatically feel bad about it? What I'm asking is, why do those of you who think that is inherently impossible to have any sexual contact with any "underage" person without it being harmful think that?


I think the biggest, biggest issue with sexual relations and underage people (especially those who are prepubescent and haven't really started to experience their own sex drive) is a lack of ability to provide informed consent. Children are, in general, uneducated, inexperienced, and naive...they are very likely not able to understand what they're getting into. Not to say that there's no possibility it could be an enjoyable, or even positive experience (though I strongly doubt such a thing occurs, oh, ever), but the fact of the matter is that children cannot be counted on to make decisions in their own best interest. Granted, adults can't always either...but, hey; you've gotta draw the line somewhere, whether it's 14, 16, or 20.

Furthermore, I think that the vast majority of such interactions are, in fact, neither enjoyable nor positive for the junior member, and I think that because this is the case, it's worth it to ban all statutory rape, because the one okay occasion does not balance out the 999 bad ones (indeed, a single bad one would outweigh 999 good ones).

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby qinwamascot » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:14 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:I hope this doesn't start a shitstorm and I don't mean to be personal here, this is purely meant hypothetically and theoretically. But are you sure that experiencing great shame and disliking what happened is inherent? Or is it because society says it's bad, so you automatically feel bad about it? What I'm asking is, why do those of you who think that is inherently impossible to have any sexual contact with any "underage" person without it being harmful think that?


I'm pretty sure most people here will agree that, at least until a child has knowledge of what sex is and some idea of the consequences, they shouldn't be allowed to consent. There's good reason for this; otherwise anyone in a position of power could easily 'convince' the child to have sex, then not go to court because it was 'consentual'. Or, translated into normal English, anyone could rape a child and claim consent.

That being said, the current ages of consent in the US at least are too high. Kids are having sex at 13 and 14 when the age of consent is 16. We may need to rework this policy, but it is absolutely wrong for children to be able to have sex before they understand the nature of the consequences.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Mane » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:21 am UTC

Kachi wrote:Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

Let me sum it up in the least complex way; like hell it is.

What really yanks my chain is when pro-pedophiles start going on about how it's just like being homosexual; let me be very, very clear on this; Pedophiles are NOT anything like an orientation because the person is attracted to the child because of the person's age. Do you honestly expect me to believe that pedophiles can have loving, meaningful relationships with children, when that child will grow 'out of' the pedophile's attractions in 10 or so years?

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:30 am UTC

Anyone who thinks this man is a terrible person or a monster really needs to examine their ideas of morality.

Artemisia, I'm particularly bothered by your statement that society should not be okay with his inclination. I'm hoping I'm just misreading the context and that you don't actually think that merely having the sexual wiring this man does should result in a negative societal impact for you. If this person acts on those urges, then yes, we very obviously have a problem.

This goes beyond a victimless crime and is in fact a victimless...nothing. There is absolutely no effect on society as a whole from his willfully repressed sexual desire.

This is something that society as a whole generally wants to sweep under the rug and pretend doesn't happen, and when it does happen, those who do it are terrible terrible people and are the worst of the worst.

Felltir, I'm actually MORE bothered by your statement - it demonstrates my last point, except that this a case where literally nothing has even happened.

Having such an attraction is not a brand of evil. I can't imagine what it would be like for your greatest sexual desire to be wrong, and ACTUALLY wrong, not just because society says so.

And PicSar - it is not right to hate the proclivity. Acting on it is, obviously, quite wrong because of the harm it inflicts on the child involved. But if someone claims to be harmed because this guy is saying what he said? That's ridiculous.

We need a society where things like this can be talked about openly and rationally, without blind zeal coloring the vision of most of the participants.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:36 am UTC

Mane, I haven't heard many people say, with any amount of agreement, that the act of having sex with children is the same as homosexual sex. Rather, it's that, just like homosexual attraction, these people can't help the fact that they are sexually attracted to certain people, yet face severe social rejection by admitting that.

The physical consequence of pedophilia is very different than homosexuality, but when you're talking about any sort of nontraditional sexuality, you get people condemned on the basis of the attraction that they have no control over. Call it an orientation or a fetish or a paraphilia or anything else, but you can't deny that it's involuntary state of affairs that it would be absolutely terrible to be caught in.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby qinwamascot » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:40 am UTC

Mane wrote:
Kachi wrote:Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

Let me sum it up in the least complex way; like hell it is.

What really yanks my chain is when pro-pedophiles start going on about how it's just like being homosexual; let me be very, very clear on this; Pedophiles are NOT anything like an orientation because the person is attracted to the child because of the person's age. Do you honestly expect me to believe that pedophiles can have loving, meaningful relationships with children, when that child will grow 'out of' the pedophile's attractions in 10 or so years?


Do you really think that the reason why homosexual marriage is allowed (in some places) is because they can have meaningful relationships? Not that two people who love each other should ben able to have a relationship? And no one is claiming he should be allowed to go around and have sex with children; just that we shouldn't hate him because he has impulses to do so. So long as he doesn't act on these, I don't see any problem, and I think calling it a sexual orientation is probably the most accurate term.

If you seriously think that it is unacceptable, and that he is evil, just because he has natural desires he can't control, then you can fight that battle (and lose).

edit: ninja'd
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:47 am UTC

I mostly agree with nougat.

This person is sick. They're not evil. Evil would be acting on their desires, and then intimidating the kid into keeping quiet. But right now, they're struggling with a mental illness, and it speaks well of them that (if they're to be believed) they're resisting.

That being said, if a person confesses to me that the voices in their head tell them to burn things, but that they're trying to resist.....I'll sympathize. It sucks to be schizophrenic. But I'm not letting them near my house until they've got some pretty thorough treatment going. I like my things not on fire. In fact, I have an inkling that my neighbors would prefer that their stuff not be on fire, either, so maybe I'm going to suggest this guy be kept somewhere safe until he's better. Someplace with padded walls and constant supervision.

Same concept: this guy is sick, but sick in a way that could be harmful to others. If he's serious about not wanting to harm anyone, he should get serious (likely inpatient) treatment, toute de suite.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby mochafairy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:48 am UTC

I think what you're missing is the people who have a problem with this guy have been taken advantage of.

I have the same feelings as Felltir. Sure, they haven't done anything to hurt anyone, yet. All it takes is that one moment of weakness and it brings back my worst memories.

I honestly don't want to hate this guy, but my gut instinct is to stay as far away as possible. I logically know that this guy poses no threat to me. I logically know that he's trying. It doesn't make my paranoia go away.

It's the same when I see people who look like him. Are they going to attack me? More than likely not. Does it make me feel any better knowing that? No. I'm still scared shitless and a wreck for the rest of the day.

I don't need people telling me that I'm overreacting, that I'm illogical, that I'm being stupid. I know that my fears make sense to no one but me and other people who have lived through it.

Before you go trying to say what's best for children and children who have been abused, you should try talking to them and trying to see their side of the story. While this guy hasn't done anything wrong, more power to him, I keep thinking "When is he going to screw up?"
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Mane » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:50 am UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:Mane, I haven't heard many people say, with any amount of agreement, that the act of having sex with children is the same as homosexual sex.

Here's the problem, Homosexuals don't have *just* sex, they have meaningful relationships with people of the same gender; pedophiles, on the other hand...

Rather, it's that, just like homosexual attraction, these people can't help the fact that they are sexually attracted to certain people, yet face severe social rejection by admitting that.

But they're not attracted to certain people, they're attracted to certain attributes of people.

Call it an orientation or a fetish or a paraphilia or anything else, but you can't deny that it's involuntary state of affairs that it would be absolutely terrible to be caught in.

Yeah, and I don't deny the fact that crazy people are generally crazy for reasons they can't control, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lock them up for their, and our, own good.

And no one is claiming he should be allowed to go around and have sex with children; just that we shouldn't hate him because he has impulses to do so. So long as he doesn't act on these, I don't see any problem,

Really? you don't see the problem? Cause you know, every rapist just has urges he or she hasn't acted on run up until he or she goes out the brutially rapes and murders someone.

and I think calling it a sexual orientation is probably the most accurate term.

Sexual orientations don't have 'urges' or 'impulses' to have sex with people of a different gender or same gender or such, people with sexual disorders have such things.

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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Noc » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:52 am UTC

Mane wrote:
Kachi wrote:Let's just call it what it is-- a very unfortunate sexual orientation to have.

Let me sum it up in the least complex way; like hell it is.

What really yanks my chain is when pro-pedophiles start going on about how it's just like being homosexual; let me be very, very clear on this; Pedophiles are NOT anything like an orientation because the person is attracted to the child because of the person's age. Do you honestly expect me to believe that pedophiles can have loving, meaningful relationships with children, when that child will grow 'out of' the pedophile's attractions in 10 or so years?


Well, lets look at things this way.

Is it possible to have a loving, meaningful marriage with someone if you can never have children with them? Because that's one of the arguments against homosexual marriage. Is it possible to have a loving, meaningful relationship with someone you who won't be sexually attractive to you in a few decades? Well, then I guess nobody who's middle aged can be in a relationship either.

I'm not "pro-pedophile." As people have said previously, sexual abuse is harmful to children, and there's no way for even the most well-intentioned of pedophiles to engage in such a relationship without having a negative impact on the child's development. No one here, unless I've missed something glaring in one of the previous posts, is suggesting otherwise.

On the other hand, for the adult we're talking about, it's not any different on the psychological level. Yes, it's a "psychological disorder," but until recently, so was homosexuality. Hell, until recently, women were institutionalized for not being womenly enough. I forget what they called it, and I can't be bothered to go look it up at this time of night, but it's pretty well documented.

From obscure, Freudian influences to simple behavioral reinforcement to artifacts of our culture's historically confused standard of beauty, there is a tremendous wealth of sexual fetishes and impulses that end up imprinted upon the human mind. Some of these are destructive and harmful if practiced; some are less so, and some are almost entirely benign. And we, as a culture, have a long and splendid history of tabulating and classifying sexual deviancy, which usually involves assigning things labels and classifying them as "disorders," so we can safely say "Those people aren't 'normal.' They're different from us!" And then, once we've decided that they're a different breed of human being, so we don't have to consider ourselves in the same group, we spend lots of time figuring out ways in which these acts are "unnatural."

Which leads to conclusions like we have here: "Pedophilia is different from homosexuality because relationships built on pedophilia will not last for more than a decade."

As I said before; I am not, and no one here is, saying that pedophilism is not harmful. But . . . seriously. What kind of logic is it that says "It is wrong and unnatural to seek out relationships of this type because they won't be viable in a decade?" You might as well say that people who are looking for short-term relationships are in a class by themselves.

"This sexual fetish belongs in a different category from this one because it's not viable in the long-term?" THINK about what you're saying first, for God's sake.

[Edit: Because doing otherwise demeans the entire discussion.]
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby qinwamascot » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:54 am UTC

mochafairy wrote:I think what you're missing is the people who have a problem with this guy have been taken advantage of.

I have the same feelings as Felltir. Sure, they haven't done anything to hurt anyone, yet. All it takes is that one moment of weakness and it brings back my worst memories.

I honestly don't want to hate this guy, but my gut instinct is to stay as far away as possible. I logically know that this guy poses no threat to me. I logically know that he's trying. It doesn't make my paranoia go away.

It's the same when I see people who look like him. Are they going to attack me? More than likely not. Does it make me feel any better knowing that? No. I'm still scared shitless and a wreck for the rest of the day.

I don't need people telling me that I'm overreacting, that I'm illogical, that I'm being stupid. I know that my fears make sense to no one but me and other people who have lived through it.

Before you go trying to say what's best for children and children who have been abused, you should try talking to them and trying to see their side of the story. While this guy hasn't done anything wrong, more power to him, I keep thinking "When is he going to screw up?"


I understand that some people have been abused, and honestly feel bad for those who have. However, that doesn't make hating the entire group acceptable. What if I was raped by a gay guy? Would that legitimize hatred towards gays as a group? Or what if it was a black person? Should I now hate all blacks. What you are doing is prejudicing people based on things they can't control. No matter how bad your experiences with one member of a group are, you can't suddenly hate all of them. I can understand why you would, but I still think it's just as wrong.
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Re: Paedophile comes out on DeviantArt

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:02 am UTC

Well, in the same sense, having those feelings of revulsion are no more wrong than the pedophile's attraction in the first place. (Which is to say, in case you missed my earlier post, not actually very.)

The problem comes in when many here recognize that these are illogical gut reactions, and then say that they can't help it and won't bother trying not to feel that way.

That's the exact opposite of what the person in question is doing. He's realizing he has an illogical and wrong gut feeling, and specifically does not act on it.

So who's the real pedophile here?
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