My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

[Joeldi]

Well this thread has inspired me to try and get some sort of team capable of lasting in Battle Tower in my crystal Version. I've an aversion to using TMs (I like having a list from 1 to 50, and "Gee Willikers, WHAT IF I NEED THAT LATER" mindset), so I wanted to see how far I could get with that.

I've got a Tyranitar With Bite, Earthquake and Rockslide, which gives it super-effectiveness over most types. I dunno what the fourth move would be best served as. Currently it's Screech, because that's what it had before I started training it up sortathing

I'm currently breeding to get a Baton Passing Scyther with Agility and Swords Dance. Again, I'm at a loss for a fourth move. Metal Claw? Slash? *shrugs*

And I have no idea for the third one. Possibly my Gengar...

[Gelsamel]

Will a scyther really survive long enough to baton pass a swordsdance/agility?

Also, Crunch > Bite (Tyranitar gets it from leveling I think).

[ACU-LP]

Also, Crunch > Bite (Tyranitar gets it from leveling I think).

Actually, thats debatable, in my crystal version (but not any other version), bite had an insane rate of causing pokemon to flinch (in reality it was about 70% rather than the official 30%, yet a move like slam had a horrific miss rate along the lines of 50%). Or at least it was in my version. In that case, bite is a much more valuable move.
But in general, crunch FTW.

[michaelandjimi]

Also, Crunch > Bite (Tyranitar gets it from leveling I think).

Actually, thats debatable, in my crystal version (but not any other version), bite had an insane rate of causing pokemon to flinch (in reality it was about 70% rather than the official 30%, yet a move like slam had a horrific miss rate along the lines of 50%). Or at least it was in my version. In that case, bite is a much more valuable move.
But in general, crunch FTW.

Funny thing about random values...

[Joeldi]

I actually meant crunch, was falling asleep when I was posting that. Also: Do your concerns about Scyther also apply to Scizor?

EDIT: Looking at Scizor's list of Resistances and Weaknesses, my unexperienced opinion is that it quite possibly could.

[lorenith]

Actually, thats debatable, in my crystal version (but not any other version), bite had an insane rate of causing pokemon to flinch (in reality it was about 70% rather than the official 30%, yet a move like slam had a horrific miss rate along the lines of 50%). Or at least it was in my version. In that case, bite is a much more valuable move.
But in general, crunch FTW.

Most people don't like to rely on something as unreliable as a flinch, when they have the possibility to just 1hko or 2hko an opponent with crunch, instead of going 3-4 turns with bite. You'd still end up taking more damage using bite than you would with crunch.

You totally pulled that 70% out of your butt.

[ACU-LP]

Actually, thats debatable, in my crystal version (but not any other version), bite had an insane rate of causing pokemon to flinch (in reality it was about 70% rather than the official 30%, yet a move like slam had a horrific miss rate along the lines of 50%). Or at least it was in my version. In that case, bite is a much more valuable move.
But in general, crunch FTW.

You totally pulled that 70% out of your butt.

In general, that would be the case, however being the nerdy kid I was, I actually calculated the number of times bite caused flinching over a four hour period. Sometimes I would go through an entire set of pp and not one would fail to flinch the opponent. That, coupled with kings rock (which only really increased it negligibly, i.e. by a fraction of a number) meant that I acutally took very little damage; bite has the power of 60, crunch 80.
Sadly however, this does not work in sapphire or fire red. However, I did get 11 hits of sheer cold in a row. That was kind of cool.

[Gelsamel]

I actually meant crunch, was falling asleep when I was posting that. Also: Do your concerns about Scyther also apply to Scizor?

EDIT: Looking at Scizor's list of Resistances and Weaknesses, my unexperienced opinion is that it quite possibly could.

Scizor I guess would work with I guess a bulky EV setup and an Occa Berry. But I'm not into competitive battling enough to know what will be able to threat/OHKO that setup. Also, maybe you might wanna concentrate on speed or attack and not both. It's not nice to be stuck with little attacking moves, he has two great STABs in Iron Head and X-scissor. Also you can pick up roost or substitute to add in some survivability (and maybe passing a sub).

Then again, my opinion is pretty inexperienced too...

Most people don't like to rely on something as unreliable as a flinch.

Unless you've got a fast serene grace togekiss w/ air slash.

Someone totally needs to see if my BT tower team is any good.

[lorenith]

You're greatly exaggerating to say you've had several rounds of pp always flinch without fail, it's been at least 5 or so years since I've played a gen II game, but I'd remember something as outrageous as bite almost always causing a flinch. This is a time to point to that random numbers comic someone already mentioned.

But yeah, serene grace togekiss=ridiculous amounts of doom I am fortunate to have not been pounded by any ones dive bomber togekiss when I was playing pokemon with others.

I can't get online with my game for two reasons now, 1 I don't have wifi in the dorm, 2 almost all my pokemon are on my wii (yeah I got pokemon ranch, it's a good place to keep my army of trapinch and sneasile), and 3 I have no TV so I can't use my wii and can't transfer them back till I'm back home.

Go me, leaving my pokemon on my wii >.<

[michaelandjimi]

Unless you've got a fast serene grace togekiss w/ air slash.

Someone totally needs to see if my BT tower team is any good.

Don't forget King's Rock.

What's your team?

[ACU-LP]

You're greatly exaggerating to say you've had several rounds of pp always flinch without fail, it's been at least 5 or so years since I've played a gen II game, but I'd remember something as outrageous as bite almost always causing a flinch. This is a time to point to that random numbers comic someone already mentioned.

I'm not exaggerating. It happened. If I hadnt moved several times (across the globe), then I would be able to find you the piece of paper I wrote it on. I only actually remember it due to my disbelief of the possibility of such an event occuring. Ever played zelda minish cap; trading shells for figurines, when the game said I had 50% chance of getting a figurine, I would only get one every 6 something attempts. Probability is a fickle thing. Also, chances are it was glitch in the game; I have a tendancy to accidentally screw up games/consoles; today I used an xbox 360 in the shop, and then it red ringed. (this has occured several times with different xbox 360s.
But anyway, I am getting far from the point. Gelsamel; whats the stats, team, movesets, version, etc. All in one post will allow us to easily refer details and build a good BT team.

[Joeldi]

I actually meant crunch, was falling asleep when I was posting that. Also: Do your concerns about Scyther also apply to Scizor?

EDIT: Looking at Scizor's list of Resistances and Weaknesses, my unexperienced opinion is that it quite possibly could.

Scizor I guess would work with I guess a bulky EV setup and an Occa Berry. But I'm not into competitive battling enough to know what will be able to threat/OHKO that setup. Also, maybe you might wanna concentrate on speed or attack and not both. It's not nice to be stuck with little attacking moves, he has two great STABs in Iron Head and X-scissor. Also you can pick up roost or substitute to add in some survivability (and maybe passing a sub).

Then again, my opinion is pretty inexperienced too...

I'm only playing Crystal, so much of that is completely unavailable to me. However, I'm only interested in beating the battle tower. My chances of finding someone in my area who's so much as heard of the phrase "Effort Values" approaches zero.

[ACU-LP]

If you're playing crystal, like has been said before, tyranitar is pretty much a must. However, make sure your team has the ability to take down a kingdra, as quickly as possible. It is popular with BT opponents, and depending on your team, can be a bitch to take down.

[hideki101]

You're greatly exaggerating to say you've had several rounds of pp always flinch without fail, it's been at least 5 or so years since I've played a gen II game, but I'd remember something as outrageous as bite almost always causing a flinch. This is a time to point to that random numbers comic someone already mentioned.

I'm not exaggerating. It happened. If I hadnt moved several times (across the globe), then I would be able to find you the piece of paper I wrote it on. I only actually remember it due to my disbelief of the possibility of such an event occuring. Ever played zelda minish cap; trading shells for figurines, when the game said I had 50% chance of getting a figurine, I would only get one every 6 something attempts. Probability is a fickle thing. Also, chances are it was glitch in the game; I have a tendancy to accidentally screw up games/consoles; today I used an xbox 360 in the shop, and then it red ringed. (this has occured several times with different xbox 360s.
But anyway, I am getting far from the point. Gelsamel; whats the stats, team, movesets, version, etc. All in one post will allow us to easily refer details and build a good BT team.

The problem of building a battle tower team is that The Computer Is A Cheating Bastard. Seriously. I have no idea of how many times I've lost in the tower due to pure luck on the opponent's part. I've faced the same crawdaunt five or so times; one in four times he activates quick claw.

[Cheese]

The problem of building a battle tower team is that The Computer Is A Cheating Bastard. Seriously. I have no idea of how many times I've lost in the tower due to pure luck on the opponent's part. I've faced the same crawdaunt five or so times; one in four times he activates quick claw.

YES. My favourite example of this is particularly evident in Pokémon Red - when you use a move like double kick or wrap, you're lucky to get two hits out of it. However, when the computer tries such moves, they nearly always get five hits, sometimes just four and rarely three. I once made a lovely little table documenting this, because it was pissing me off while I was trying to low-level someone.

[Aethernox]

The problem of building a battle tower team is that The Computer Is A Cheating Bastard. Seriously. I have no idea of how many times I've lost in the tower due to pure luck on the opponent's part. I've faced the same crawdaunt five or so times; one in four times he activates quick claw.

That page is utterly terrible; for every valid point, there are at least 2 statements that are either nothing but whining or completely false. While what you say may be true, I'm curious as to how a crawdaunt activates Quick Claw one in four times over the course of five battles.

[ACU-LP]

Ok, new resolution; before this becomes a thread bitching about how the pokemon game cheats and how values given are a bunch of BS (like how the hell can metronome give sand attack 3 times in a row?!), can we just accept that cheating, and wierd/improbable things can and do happen?

[Gelsamel]

Aethernox is right, 99% of the time it's confirmation bias. The other 1% the RNG can screw you over, but what can I say... it's RNG.....


Also I posted my team a few posts back.

[ParanoidDrone]

I seem to recall people hacking into Pokemon Stadium I and II and finding that the computer was deliberately programmed to have stacked odds. IDK if this is true or not, but food for thought.

[lorenith]

Who cares if the computer is programmed to have stacked odds, it's still easy to beat even if it has extra "luck" so to speak.

[ACU-LP]

I am currently borrowing a ds and pearl version from a friend (he's not using the ds, and has taken all his good pokemon from pearl, so a new game is fine). Now I can finally see what all the fuss is about it. I have one thing to say though; team galactic?! WTF? They're no replacement for team rocket; at least team rocket tried to be evil, but these guys are just a bunch of wimps; "you win, we leave". What?! [/minirant]

[Gelsamel]

It's been a different team almost every time...

[existential_elevator]

It's been a different team almost every time...

Yeah. That annoys me for some reason.

[lethesoda]

Yeah, but if Team Rocket/Magma/Aqua all came back in, say, "Pokemon Crimson/Cobalt", we'd need.. the first three regions in the same game.

... Oh yeah. Nice.

[ACU-LP]

I know that the enemies in the games change, its just team rocket tried to be evil, team magma/aqua were just crazy, but TG are....sad.
Now, a game with all areas and access to all pokemon (so that those who cant trade, dont get left with no way to finish the game. Freakin nintendo bastards.), however they would almost definitely have to extend the leveling scheme.

[Gelsamel]

It's been a different team almost every time...

Yeah. That annoys me for some reason.

It would piss me off if I was the type of person who thought that the game came from the anime.

[Joeldi]

Google can't seem to tell me if/how EVs work in Generation II, and from experimenting, sometimes they seem to and sometimes they don't...(Tentacool upped my Dragonite's Speed, when I was trying to increase it's Sp. Def like the chart told me, but it worked for my Scyther)

Now, a game with all areas and access to all pokemon (so that those who cant trade, dont get left with no way to finish the game. Freakin nintendo bastards.), however they would almost definitely have to extend the leveling scheme.

I said this earlier in the thread, but: I am envisioning a 3D game that spans the whole of the 4 areas (+ Sevii Islands) that has the same mechanics as the handheld games except with a better story, complete with nice cut-scenes)
<edit> oh, and 7 more pokemon to bring the total up to 500 (and give the game something to base a story around, I suppose) AND THEN STOP </edit>

Alternately, an MMO (with all 4 areas + Sevii islands)...why hasn't there been a damn Pokemon MMO, it'd translate very easily.

[ACU-LP]

I'd just like to see a full world map; where everything is, why people dont just go from one to the other, etc. Its called a plane people. Or flying pokemon.

[lorenith]

I'd just like to see a full world map; where everything is, why people dont just go from one to the other, etc.

Who said people don't?


Here's a map for you, although I'm not sure if the regions are actually laid out that way or just put together in a way that all can be seen I'm thinking it's the latter.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/uploa ... iesMap.jpg


All the pokemon regions are based geographically on regions in Japan, other countries that exist in the real world have been mentioned in the games, so there might be some similarities between the pokemon world and the real world geographically speaking.

[existential_elevator]

It's been a different team almost every time...

Yeah. That annoys me for some reason.

It would piss me off if I was the type of person who thought that the game came from the animé.

It's more so that.. well.. Nothing else much changes in the world other than the bad guys team names. Nothing significant in the storyline anyway. You would think that if there were so many terrorist organisations hell bent on <diabolical outcome> in such a geographically potentially small area that either some of the cells team up to a mutual advantage, or there is some distinct rivalries and fightings. If there was an instance where Team Rocket attempted to sabotage Team Magma or something, then perhaps I'd feel happier. There wouldn't have to be any direct crossovers, but it would be nice if they acknowledged each other.

[Gelsamel]

It's been a different team almost every time...

Yeah. That annoys me for some reason.

It would piss me off if I was the type of person who thought that the game came from the animé.

It's more so that.. well.. Nothing else much changes in the world other than the bad guys team names. Nothing significant in the storyline anyway. You would think that if there were so many terrorist organisations hell bent on <diabolical outcome> in such a geographically potentially small area that either some of the cells team up to a mutual advantage, or there is some distinct rivalries and fightings. If there was an instance where Team Rocket attempted to sabotage Team Magma or something, then perhaps I'd feel happier. There wouldn't have to be any direct crossovers, but it would be nice if they acknowledged each other.

I'd be fine with that, then again I want them to stop this BS way of merchandising it so i have to buy everything! I should be able to go back to the older places in the newer games.

[ACU-LP]

They poked at this idea in the GSC editions. But this proved the point of limits to leveling up. If there were more than these areas, as I have said before, they will have to extend the leveling scheme. This is something I just cant see them doing; its like a tradition for it to be 'lvl 100'. Also, if they extended the leveling scheme, then they should need a legitimate reason.
Though the interaction of forces would be good. Or at least an extension of their existence; they should never be fully gone and should pop up here and there as team rocket gains new members. (I find the concept of them dispanding all the time to be....flawed)

[Gelsamel]

They poked at this idea in the GSC editions. But this proved the point of limits to leveling up. If there were more than these areas, as I have said before, they will have to extend the leveling scheme. This is something I just cant see them doing; its like a tradition for it to be 'lvl 100'. Also, if they extended the leveling scheme, then they should need a legitimate reason.
Though the interaction of forces would be good. Or at least an extension of their existence; they should never be fully gone and should pop up here and there as team rocket gains new members. (I find the concept of them dispanding all the time to be....flawed)

I don't think they have to do this. Just make the other areas open ended - you can travel anywhere and do what ever when you get there. It's sole reason would be to get more badges (make them hard) and to catch more pokemon and find more items etc.

[ACU-LP]

But before you're through it, you will have reached level 100. Then the bosses will have to be at that level, which will be fun at first, but will get annoying if you dont have avery powerful team (i.e. chose them for aesthetics).

[Gelsamel]

But before you're through it, you will have reached level 100. Then the bosses will have to be at that level, which will be fun at first, but will get annoying if you dont have avery powerful team (i.e. chose them for aesthetics).

They don't have to be that level, just like my level 100 Blastoise Stomped through Red's Elite Four who were like level 60-80. Just make them all level 80 or so.

[SJ Zero]

I played Blue and made it pretty far, back in the day.

The centerpiece of my party was a Raticate. It managed to use fighting, earth, and normal attacks, along with super-fang. Basically, I could drag any pokemon's health down to a managable level, then use dig to hit it, or fighting if it was strong against earth.

Good times.

[qinwamascot]

Google can't seem to tell me if/how EVs work in Generation II, and from experimenting, sometimes they seem to and sometimes they don't...(Tentacool upped my Dragonite's Speed, when I was trying to increase it's Sp. Def like the chart told me, but it worked for my Scyther)

EVs in gen II iirc don't have a total cap. Only individual caps, so just fight a lot of people and be sure to max out all 6 stats. You can use the box trick to recalculate stats in gen II

As for Scizor, it's definitely a viable BPer. Fire attacks are usually predictable too, so the berry isn't even necessary. Switch in on anything that can't hurt you, free agility while they switch out, then if you predict a fire attack, bp to a resistant thing that likes speed (ttar anyone?). If you don't think it'll OHKO, then get the SD in and you can pass basically 2 Dragon dances. After that, it's close to gg assuming you have a decent sweeper. A berry can help force the BP, but I've found that other options are often superior.

A choice band/life orb set is also viable, especially if you can predict the switch in. With life orb, agility first turn. U-turn out or kill what they send in. With CB, scizor has average coverage and good move choices. Defences are solid enough to get in easilly, and can hurt things. The BPer is the primary use, but either of these seem viable to me.

I remember the funniest way I ever beat the elite 4. Level 38 Noctowl was basically all it took, along with a bag full of revives, pp restoring stuff, and assorted potions.

[ACU-LP]

What is with the pokemon selection in Pearl? For electric type, there is pikachu (crap), pachirisu (crap and annoying), and luxray (boring). Until you defeat the elite four, you cant get elekid from fire red.
And for fire pokemon....ponyta?!

[ParanoidDrone]

And Infernape, but it's a starter.

Yeah, the Pokemon selection is kind of bad. Still better than previous games imo, but some variety would be nice. If you don't want a half-empty party for a few gyms, you're pretty much limited to your starter, Luxray, Staraptor, Roserade, Gyarados/Floatzel/Gastrodon, Rapidash, and Golem/Alakazam/Gengar/Machamp if you can trade for the evos. Garchomp and Lucario are pains to raise since they're at such a low level when you first get them, but are otherwise excellent. And defending is a waste of time ingame, so Bronzong, Blissey, etc. are worthless.

On a related note: Fire types in general need a good mid-power move that is widely learned around level 30ish. Ember's just too weak by then, Flamethrower is either unavailable or prohibitively expensive/time consuming through the casino, and Fire Blast has PP/accuracy issues. When I'm facing Fantina, I do not want to be reduced to using Ember on Mismagius.

[ACU-LP]

I just beat the ice gym and my team is interesting, I only just added some, and am currently exp share training them to shape;
Gengar 45
Torterra 42
Luxray 40
Crobat 27
Gabite 25
Bibarel 18 (HM slave)
I cant wait for my Garchomp; then I can get a fire move for these guys. Gengar is exceptionally good in this game, its like my flagship pokemon; it has so far taken out almost all of the gyms for me. As soon as I can, I'm changing Luxray for an elekid, and bibarel for a Salamence (when he's not needed).

Also, has anyone else noticed how after you use a healing item, your pokemon takes a fraction more damage? Almost every time I've damn near killed a gym leader pokemon in one move, then they heal and I use the same move, it kills them the second time.