1986: "River Border"

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Ignitus
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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby Ignitus » Fri May 04, 2018 6:17 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:You thread-ninjaed me, had to delete my alternate OP. (You forgot the quotes around the title, BTW, and I think you also forgot the link on the image. (edit: Or not. Maybe I mis-tapped, first time.) Quickly correct it, before it gets corrected for you?)

My own follow-on comment was:


If we make the river flow backwards, do we have to get everyone in Missouri to move to Nebraska and everyone in Nebraska move to Missouri, just to make the vector mathematics work properly?

I spent minutes deciding between "maths" (better for me and most of the world who care) and "math" (better for you colonials) before deciding upon "mathematics"!


Added the quotes retroactively. Sadly it does make an edit tag appear now that the thread has responses. I've also noticed a great deal older comic entries have very broken formats. I was wondering if we took the time to make new threads if the mods would merge them for us to fix the top post.

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Soupspoon
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri May 04, 2018 6:41 pm UTC

Ignitus wrote:Added the quotes retroactively. Sadly it does make an edit tag appear now that the thread has responses. I've also noticed a great deal older comic entries have very broken formats. I was wondering if we took the time to make new threads if the mods would merge them for us to fix the top post.

I wouldn't ask me. I think if they have another good reason to edit the in-good-faith-prior-to-the-current-rule ones then they sneak in there, but allow currently atypical ones that are 'good enough (and have been made to obey the number/title subjects rule) ' alone . A number of old ones I've seen necroed recently haven't had the comic in, once you decide to look at the OP.

Really it'd take the goodwill of an 'invisible mod' (who may have already visited old items to make the ### numbers into 0### ones - perhaps, I'm guessing, working on the messageDB at a system level during a historic forum migration) to make them all totally on-spec.

Right now, it's just courtesy to get it as right as currently possible or risk attracting ire, though you were only a little bit off.

(There's a web-page out there with a background script does the hard work of standardised conversion for you. I usually reply to a prior comic-thread OP to copy-grab the layout, cancel without posting then start the new thread of my own up. Remembering to get rid of the quote-tags while replacing comic number, image name, retype alt-text and add my own personal thought (which I ought to have fully hammered out by that point), while the autocomplete in the Subject box reminds me as I tap in the new number (based on past inputs I've made innthat field on this browser) that I need to colon-space and quote the comic-title while I'm there. Which is more work than it needs to be, but I'm like that.)

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby jgh » Sat May 05, 2018 7:39 pm UTC

eviloatmeal wrote:So what you're saying is that before serving, a pizza is just a really messy focaccia.

Pizza is just expensive cheese on toast.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue May 08, 2018 5:44 pm UTC

jgh wrote:
eviloatmeal wrote:So what you're saying is that before serving, a pizza is just a really messy focaccia.

Pizza is just expensive cheese on toast.
A good pizza requires a whole farm getting mulched by some sort of fire tornado effect.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby mathmannix » Fri May 11, 2018 4:01 pm UTC

chrisjwmartin wrote:*reads tooltip*

What on earth does pie have to do with pizza?

*thinks for a bit*

Oh, right - Randall is American from New England, and for some reason they talk about "pizza pies".

ftfy. I never heard a pizza called a pie growing up in the Midwest.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri May 11, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

Here in California I've never heard anyone say "pizza pie" in conversation, but everyone knows the song "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore..."
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby mathmannix » Fri May 11, 2018 4:19 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Here in California I've never heard anyone say "pizza pie" in conversation, but everyone knows the song "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore..."

Wait, so the lyrics aren't actually "piece of pie" ???

...
Seriously?
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri May 11, 2018 4:20 pm UTC

Google seems to agree with me.
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri May 11, 2018 4:22 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Here in California I've never heard anyone say "pizza pie" in conversation, but everyone knows the song "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore..."

Wait, so the lyrics aren't actually "piece of pie" ???

...
Seriously?


I hesitate to call it wrong but if your pieces of pie (except for the trivial pieces) look like any phase of the moon, you're doing it in a very non-standard way.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby mathmannix » Fri May 11, 2018 4:22 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Google seems to agree with me.

Yes, I just realized this. Today I learned something, but I'll probably intentionally forget it and go back to being ignorant. Ignorance is sometimes bliss.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri May 11, 2018 4:56 pm UTC

Diet tip: If you cut your whole pie in two, you have half the calories. And, because you've cut down on the calories, you can now have a pair of them guilt free!

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri May 11, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I hesitate to call it wrong but if your pieces of pie (except for the trivial pieces) look like any phase of the moon, you're doing it in a very non-standard way.

Now I kind of want a crescent moon shaped slice of pie, for extra crusty goodness.
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby jello34543 » Fri May 11, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:I hesitate to call it wrong but if your pieces of pie (except for the trivial pieces) look like any phase of the moon, you're doing it in a very non-standard way.

Now I kind of want a crescent moon shaped slice of pie, for extra crusty goodness.


Calzones may be your friend. Twice the crust, and sometimes the nominally flat edge will be shaped to be somewhat concave.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby Cougar Allen » Thu May 17, 2018 2:08 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:When preparing food, the preparation methods are a relevant distinction; when consuming it, the qualitative properties of the food are more relevant than how it comes to be in the first place.

Whether the chef's taxonomy is the best nomenclature for the diners to use is an open question.

I dunno. Does ontogeny recapitulate phylogeny? Is even the chef's taxonomy truly cladistic? Which came first, the Italian pizza or the Greek?

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby chrisjwmartin » Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 am UTC

mathmannix wrote:
chrisjwmartin wrote:*reads tooltip*

What on earth does pie have to do with pizza?

*thinks for a bit*

Oh, right - Randall is American from New England, and for some reason they talk about "pizza pies".

ftfy. I never heard a pizza called a pie growing up in the Midwest.

Interesting, as an Old Worlder I assumed that "pizza pie" was more broadly American. I'm sure I've heard of Chicago Pizza Pie, and I understand Chicago to be in the Midwest.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby Mikeski » Fri May 18, 2018 9:54 am UTC

chrisjwmartin wrote:
mathmannix wrote:
chrisjwmartin wrote:*reads tooltip*

What on earth does pie have to do with pizza?

*thinks for a bit*

Oh, right - Randall is American from New England, and for some reason they talk about "pizza pies".

ftfy. I never heard a pizza called a pie growing up in the Midwest.

Interesting, as an Old Worlder I assumed that "pizza pie" was more broadly American. I'm sure I've heard of Chicago Pizza Pie, and I understand Chicago to be in the Midwest.

I've only been to Chicago a couple times (and had the local pizza only once), but as a Minnesotan, I only know the phrase "pizza pie" from the song. Nobody here calls it that. Or if they do, they say it in a cartoonish Italian accent. :mrgreen:

Around here, the "pizza as made in Chicago" is described with some subset of the words {Chicago,deep,dish,pan,pizza,style}. Or just specifically by the restaurant name: Gino's, Uno's, etc.

Though Uno's own Twitter posts do use the word "pie" occasionally. Hm.

I guess it's just that "the Midwest" represents about 70 million people living on 2 million square kilometers, so we're not as monolithic as you might think. Or as I might think. (for comparison, Italy is about 60 million people on 300,000 sq km... "Italy+Germany+all the rest of Europe west of those two" is close to the size of "the Midwest" by area.)

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby pogrmman » Mon May 21, 2018 11:38 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
chrisjwmartin wrote:
mathmannix wrote:
chrisjwmartin wrote:*reads tooltip*

What on earth does pie have to do with pizza?

*thinks for a bit*

Oh, right - Randall is American from New England, and for some reason they talk about "pizza pies".

ftfy. I never heard a pizza called a pie growing up in the Midwest.

Interesting, as an Old Worlder I assumed that "pizza pie" was more broadly American. I'm sure I've heard of Chicago Pizza Pie, and I understand Chicago to be in the Midwest.

I've only been to Chicago a couple times (and had the local pizza only once), but as a Minnesotan, I only know the phrase "pizza pie" from the song. Nobody here calls it that. Or if they do, they say it in a cartoonish Italian accent. :mrgreen:

Around here, the "pizza as made in Chicago" is described with some subset of the words {Chicago,deep,dish,pan,pizza,style}. Or just specifically by the restaurant name: Gino's, Uno's, etc.

Though Uno's own Twitter posts do use the word "pie" occasionally. Hm.

I guess it's just that "the Midwest" represents about 70 million people living on 2 million square kilometers, so we're not as monolithic as you might think. Or as I might think. (for comparison, Italy is about 60 million people on 300,000 sq km... "Italy+Germany+all the rest of Europe west of those two" is close to the size of "the Midwest" by area.)


The Midwest also isn’t really a well defined region. Until I started going to school there, I didn’t really have a conception of exactly what counted and what didn’t count. I knew Chicago, Des Moines, and Minneapolis counted, but beyond that “triangle”, I wasn’t really sure. I’m still not!

I do stand by my earlier contention that you’d be insane to call New York style pizza a pie. I can see the argument for the inferior Chicago style being called a pie, but it’s still wrong. It’s also just a silly term.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue May 22, 2018 12:32 am UTC

Out here in California, I noticed that a regional chain has an item on their menu labeled “Simple Pie”, for what is basically a cheese pizza. California pizza is crispy thin crust.
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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby Mikeski » Tue May 22, 2018 2:35 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:The Midwest also isn’t really a well defined region. Until I started going to school there, I didn’t really have a conception of exactly what counted and what didn’t count. I knew Chicago, Des Moines, and Minneapolis counted, but beyond that “triangle”, I wasn’t really sure. I’m still not!


I was using the US Census Bureau's definition, which divides the Lower 48 into 4 regions (northeast, south, midwest, and west). State boundaries don't line up perfectly with cultural boundaries, but it's close enough for government work, so to speak.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby Murgatroyd » Sat May 26, 2018 10:23 pm UTC

eviloatmeal wrote:
toddgeorge wrote:
pkcommando wrote:
eviloatmeal wrote:
AndrewGPaul wrote:It's basically stuff on bread, isn't it? Whereas pies are things in pastry*. Someone else can tell us what the difference between bread and pastry is.

Yes, hello. I do believe that technically a pastry dough must contain shortening, whereas bread dough is made with oil. Pizza is definitely bread. If you fold your slice then it might be a sandwich depending on the hot dog divide.

Pizza is an open-face sandwich, obviously.


Unless you fold it length-wise like done in NY. Then it's a taco.


I thought tacos were the hard-shelled ones. A folded pizza is more a quesadilla.


Only if you fold it before cutting.

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Re: 1986: River Border

Postby pogrmman » Sat May 26, 2018 11:43 pm UTC

eviloatmeal wrote:I thought tacos were the hard-shelled ones.

Sacrilege. What are you, some kind of taco hater? There's tacos, then there's hard-shelled tacos. They're completely different foods!

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sun May 27, 2018 12:30 am UTC

Relevant question came up last night while eating dessert at a pizzeria: if you top a pizza crust with sweet things (in my case, cinnamon and caramel and powdered sugar and such), is it just a "pie" (like for dessert, ala a chocolate pie or cherry pie) simpliciter? If not, then it seems calling the pizza a pie is a misnomer as well.

I still hold that pizzas are open-face pastriforms, whereas pies are close-faced ones.

A calzone might be a pie.
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun May 27, 2018 12:40 am UTC

/wonders about Cornish Pasties. (Not particulary noted as being common in Cornish Strip-Joints!)

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby ucim » Sun May 27, 2018 1:26 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:[I]f you top a pizza crust with sweet things (in my case, cinnamon and caramel and powdered sugar and such), is it just a "pie" (like for dessert, ala a chocolate pie or cherry pie) simpliciter? If not, then it seems calling the pizza a pie is a misnomer as well.
I was in Italy many years ago, hosted by a family that (like many in Italy) had their own pizza oven, and made their own pies. They were all called "pizza" (that's the Italian word for pizza). The Italian word for "pie" is "torta"; they did not use that word.

Our host family made me a chocolate pizza ("pizza al cioccolato") from their old family recipe (it was awesome!). I don't remember the exact words they used, but that (from Google) is close enough. So, I'd say that the use of the word "pie" is an Americanism (or perhaps an Englishism - what do they call it on the islands?)

Nonetheless, I grew up knowing "pizza pie", which we sometimes shortened to "pizza". But with pizza on the table, asking for a piece of pie was clearly understood.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun May 27, 2018 10:34 am UTC

ucim wrote:So, I'd say that the use of the word "pie" is an Americanism (or perhaps an Englishism - what do they call it on the islands?)

"Pizza". Though I did note (within the last couple of weeks and I'm trying to remember when it was, because this conversation was ongoing at the time remembered the context: 14/May/2018, and it would have been approx 19:05 BST, sorry I can't be more precise) that a pub menu had a special "pizza pie" on it (in amongst other 'plain' pizzas, all described as thin-and-crispy, deep crust or whatever), which I took more to be an Americanism used for a dish that ws only special like the "Soup Of The Day" (but perpetually so) for no actual unique pastriform reasoning.

i.e. purely an advertising superlative, no better than "Chicago-style pizza" with no contractal expectation that a real Chicagoan(?) would recognise any such heritage.

Baaically, "pizza pie" isn't a thing, over here, outside of representations being made that something is specifically Americanised. In a way that we expect applies to the whole of the US, all 57 territories thereof. No, wait, that's pickles. Whatever.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sun May 27, 2018 11:18 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:A calzone might be a pie.

I've decided that a calzone is most definitely a kind of savory pie (because if some thing calzone-shaped were stuffed with e.g. cherries or something, it would clearly just be a cherry or whatever pie), which seems to unambiguously make pizzas the open-faced equivalent of pies. Both collectively pastriforms.

Though, that seems like it might make a ham-and-cheese croissant into a pie, and a tart into a pizza? Maybe? I'm not actually very familiar with tarts, they have like a fruit paste on top of dough that's then all baked together like that, right?
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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon May 28, 2018 2:14 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:A calzone might be a pie.

I've decided that a calzone is most definitely a kind of savory pie (because if some thing calzone-shaped were stuffed with e.g. cherries or something, it would clearly just be a cherry or whatever pie), which seems to unambiguously make pizzas the open-faced equivalent of pies. Both collectively pastriforms.

Though, that seems like it might make a ham-and-cheese croissant into a pie, and a tart into a pizza? Maybe? I'm not actually very familiar with tarts, they have like a fruit paste on top of dough that's then all baked together like that, right?


Pizzas use a leavened dough while pies/tarts use an unleavened pastry dough. A calzone is more of a filled roll.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby pogrmman » Mon May 28, 2018 9:44 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:A calzone might be a pie.

I've decided that a calzone is most definitely a kind of savory pie (because if some thing calzone-shaped were stuffed with e.g. cherries or something, it would clearly just be a cherry or whatever pie), which seems to unambiguously make pizzas the open-faced equivalent of pies. Both collectively pastriforms.

Though, that seems like it might make a ham-and-cheese croissant into a pie, and a tart into a pizza? Maybe? I'm not actually very familiar with tarts, they have like a fruit paste on top of dough that's then all baked together like that, right?


Pizzas use a leavened dough while pies/tarts use an unleavened pastry dough. A calzone is more of a filled roll.


What would you call it if the pizza had a laminated crust? I’ve been considering trying to make pizza with croissant dough as a crust (so a levained, laminated pastry dough).

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue May 29, 2018 12:20 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:A calzone might be a pie.

I've decided that a calzone is most definitely a kind of savory pie (because if some thing calzone-shaped were stuffed with e.g. cherries or something, it would clearly just be a cherry or whatever pie), which seems to unambiguously make pizzas the open-faced equivalent of pies. Both collectively pastriforms.

Though, that seems like it might make a ham-and-cheese croissant into a pie, and a tart into a pizza? Maybe? I'm not actually very familiar with tarts, they have like a fruit paste on top of dough that's then all baked together like that, right?


Pizzas use a leavened dough while pies/tarts use an unleavened pastry dough. A calzone is more of a filled roll.


What would you call it if the pizza had a laminated crust? I’ve been considering trying to make pizza with croissant dough as a crust (so a levained, laminated pastry dough).


Innovative/confusing.

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Re: 1986: "River Border"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue May 29, 2018 12:33 am UTC

What do I call croissant pizza?

Delicious.
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