WoWzers!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Menacing Spike
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:57 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:...everything in the game sort of is?
If you remove the "amusing-to-some-people time sinks", there wouldn't be a game.


What about exploration and discovery? The first time you got a flying mount and dicked around in the Netherstorm? First run in the heroic deadmines? Discovering new spells and abilities? Encountering yet another species of boar?

'course, once discovered, the joy fades, and Blizzard wants you to stay and pay. Hence the time sinks.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:08 pm UTC

Ooooor, you could just have the fucking gameplay without the 2-3 hours of farming to support consumable consumption for that gameplay that you want to do. I care about raiding; I don't give a shit about doing the same dailies and killing elementals for hours to sell crap to buy mats for flasks because I started a new main on another server and don't have another 85 toons to farm herbs and make flasks for me.

Really, the WotLK model was sustainable because of mat req's being affordable by just doing dailies. In cata they UPPED the amount of herbs needed per flask, the volatiles. You are doing 24 fucking herbs and 6 volatiles per flask. They removed chaos orbs from being BoE like their predecessor frost orbs.

They deliberately have made changes for release to require soul-crushing amounts of gold to maintain progression game-play.


A 4 hour raid night should not be setting me back 700-800g worth of consumables four times a week.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Kag » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:30 am UTC

Well, you could have the fun parts of without the insane Skinner Box bullshit at all, but that would be too good of a game.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:42 pm UTC

I think it'd be to shallow a game. If you take economic endeavors outside of the characters hands, you need a more robust npc economy, which WoW kind of not really sort of has in the form of the JP system. And that's a pretty silly and insane grind in and of itself. I dunno, if you don't like grinding stupid stuff over and over, and just want straight PvP, WoW isn't the game for you. If you think WoW's grind is to high, find a less grindy game. The PvP that I've seen isn't particularly amazing.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:51 pm UTC

Well, my post had nothing to do with PvP, screw PvP really that's what the upcoming Guild Wars 2 is for. GW2 looks amaaaaaazing ;).

I'm really talking about a working model in WotLK for flasks, and Blizzard fucking that up for no reason other than to make the game grindier.

Yes, cauldrons are meant to compensate for that. But the issue is that with the current guild leveling model, those cauldrons won't kick in till about 2 months to be efficient. By then we'll be halfway into hard modes. And that doesn't even cover people unlike me, who are not progression raiders but people who have to PUG raids and thus won't ever see cauldrons.

Consumables in WotLK were about right. Doing your dailies you could easily have your set of consumables per night. Right now that's not the case.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:13 pm UTC

I agree that some of the recipes are a bit ridiculous in their demands, but I think WoW needs more crafting, not less. More variety at the very least. I like that volatiles were introduced as an addition to herbs, cloth, skin, and ore, but generally feel that there needs to be more recipes, not less. I'd be particularly interested in seeing more recipes that require something from everything. But yeah, I'll agree that the 525 JC rings shouldn't require *75* volatiles to craft, that number just seems unreasonably high.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:09 pm UTC

Kag wrote:Well, you could have the fun parts of without the insane Skinner Box bullshit at all, but that would be too good of a game.


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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:28 pm UTC

Flasks used to also require a Frost lotus, which were an 8% drop from herbs, so that's roughly 12 herbs right there. So WotLK flasks cost 22 herbs, Cata flasks costs 24 + 6 volatiles. An increase, but nothing huge, and it's being changed next patch to 16+8, making it almost identical to WotLK (depending on primal costs, Lifes on my server are about the same price as the herbs are). Then we get cauldrons, which reduce the price drastically. Boo hoo if it takes 2 months to get there, expansions last for 2 years, you'll have them for the VAST majority of your raiding.

Cata doesn't have a mote/primal system, so 75 volatiles is the equivalent of 7.5 primals from WotLK, while the 440 JC necks cost 12 primals each (that's 120 motes/volatiles)
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:58 pm UTC

In WotLK, I gave all my guildies any glyphs they needed free. Things cost like 5g to make and I always had a supply. Since herb prices jumped... not anymore. I've also been giving my Truegold CD away to guildies free, which they're using to make guild gear. I do it with the understand that "If anything procs, I get dibs", but I'd probably just give them to help our raiders out anyway. However, I don't expect anything in return, ever. I'm easily the richest person in our guild, probably having close to or more than the rest of our raiders combined. I earned most of it though during WotLK, as there was a long period where I found the game's economy/making money to be what I enjoyed most.
Vyn wrote:If you're low on gold though (and 10k is waaaaaay low) and you're an alchemist... flasks. Farm and make flasks. They're selling like crack candy right now.
I don't agree that 10k is low. I'd say there's 2-3 people, aside from me, in my guild that break that. I'm pretty sure most players, if you inspected their stats, never get much more than 5k gold (the amount needed for fast flying). Also, at least on my server, making flasks isn't exceptionally profitable right now. Last I checked, buying the mats and making the flasks out of them would next you about 10-20g/flask. If you're an alchemist and you need money, xmuting is nearly always the way to go. Specialize in it, and your procs from that are worth a ton.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:52 pm UTC

Someone was selling approx 100 Ink of the Sea's for about 100g a stack. I picked them all up and flooded the AH with glyphs. I am excited for the next few days. Considering I spend approx 500g, and on two glyphs have made that back, I'm hoping the other 30 or so glyphs I have up don't require re-auctioning. Go inscription!
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:56 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:Flasks used to also require a Frost lotus, which were an 8% drop from herbs, so that's roughly 12 herbs right there. So WotLK flasks cost 22 herbs, Cata flasks costs 24 + 6 volatiles. An increase, but nothing huge, and it's being changed next patch to 16+8, making it almost identical to WotLK (depending on primal costs, Lifes on my server are about the same price as the herbs are). Then we get cauldrons, which reduce the price drastically. Boo hoo if it takes 2 months to get there, expansions last for 2 years, you'll have them for the VAST majority of your raiding.

Cata doesn't have a mote/primal system, so 75 volatiles is the equivalent of 7.5 primals from WotLK, while the 440 JC necks cost 12 primals each (that's 120 motes/volatiles)


So if we have them for the VAST majority of our raiding, what's the purpose of delaying it other than establishing a temporary gold sink?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:42 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:
mike-l wrote:Flasks used to also require a Frost lotus, which were an 8% drop from herbs, so that's roughly 12 herbs right there. So WotLK flasks cost 22 herbs, Cata flasks costs 24 + 6 volatiles. An increase, but nothing huge, and it's being changed next patch to 16+8, making it almost identical to WotLK (depending on primal costs, Lifes on my server are about the same price as the herbs are). Then we get cauldrons, which reduce the price drastically. Boo hoo if it takes 2 months to get there, expansions last for 2 years, you'll have them for the VAST majority of your raiding.

Cata doesn't have a mote/primal system, so 75 volatiles is the equivalent of 7.5 primals from WotLK, while the 440 JC necks cost 12 primals each (that's 120 motes/volatiles)


So if we have them for the VAST majority of our raiding, what's the purpose of delaying it other than establishing a temporary gold sink?


Same reason you don't start at level 85 with full epics and tradeskills.

And it's really not a gold sink unless you are making flasks only to hit the cauldrons. We hit our small cauldron today just from people making flasks as they would normally. It's a reward for doing stuff as a guild.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:20 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
Lucrece wrote:
mike-l wrote:Flasks used to also require a Frost lotus, which were an 8% drop from herbs, so that's roughly 12 herbs right there. So WotLK flasks cost 22 herbs, Cata flasks costs 24 + 6 volatiles. An increase, but nothing huge, and it's being changed next patch to 16+8, making it almost identical to WotLK (depending on primal costs, Lifes on my server are about the same price as the herbs are). Then we get cauldrons, which reduce the price drastically. Boo hoo if it takes 2 months to get there, expansions last for 2 years, you'll have them for the VAST majority of your raiding.

Cata doesn't have a mote/primal system, so 75 volatiles is the equivalent of 7.5 primals from WotLK, while the 440 JC necks cost 12 primals each (that's 120 motes/volatiles)


So if we have them for the VAST majority of our raiding, what's the purpose of delaying it other than establishing a temporary gold sink?


Same reason you don't start at level 85 with full epics and tradeskills.

And it's really not a gold sink unless you are making flasks only to hit the cauldrons. We hit our small cauldron today just from people making flasks as they would normally. It's a reward for doing stuff as a guild.


Doesn't hold up as a gating mechanism vs. gear gating. Not even close. One gating mechanism is to measure progression and slow progress down enough so that there is time to release new content for the playerbase, while making consumables stupidly expensive isn't going to gate anyone. It just increases the time they have to play and spend farming in order to raid because raiding without full consumables for a raid night is simply not an option.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:49 am UTC

Well you don't have to use the fancy Seafood Magnifique buff or flask buffs. It's not a necessity.
It's just that whiptail is only in two zones and twilight jasmine is in one and heartblossom is in one... whereas Icethorn and Lichbloom were in three zones.
I dunno. It's just harder to get. It's more expensive. It happens.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:24 am UTC

Midnight wrote:Well you don't have to use the fancy Seafood Magnifique buff or flask buffs. It's not a necessity.
It's just that whiptail is only in two zones and twilight jasmine is in one and heartblossom is in one... whereas Icethorn and Lichbloom were in three zones.
I dunno. It's just harder to get. It's more expensive. It happens.


That's part of the reason for the price. The herbs are more time consuming to farm in my experience.

But flasks and food are not optional. In progression raiding, a flask/food buff missing is the difference between a 1-5% wipe and a kill. You don't start in epic gear; and that's fine because you can't help it, but everyone suffers that handicap. Consumables are not an equal handicap, as there are people that come filthy rich off their mains in WotLK, and then there are new mains and newcomers in other servers who simply can't afford 300g flasks (minimum 4 hours is 1200g), a 200g stack of food, and about 150g worth of potions per raid night when the dailies at best provide 300-400g. Not everyone has multiple alts with gathering profs to supply their main with two crafting professions.

People are already putting 4 hours into raiding, do you really need to squeeze 2 hours of farming out of them as well?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:46 am UTC

I don't think 10k is too little gold for myself, seeing as how I'm an alchemist/tailor/fisherwoman and my alt is an herb/miner. I farm all of my own raiding mats (and my guild only raids one day a week anyway, plus double flask durations) so I don't have any ongoing drains on my gold with the exception of repairs. I go through 2-3 flasks a week, just a few mana potions (I get good mileage from mana tide + arcane torrent + shadowfiend + hymn of hope), and less than one full stack of buff food. And I also provide the feasts for our guild's cooking slackers.

For a one night a week guild, though, I feel we're doing well. We've raided two days so far (raid day is Saturday and we couldn't raid during the holidays) and have killed Halfus, Magmaw, Omnitron, and Magmaw again--all on 25. Plus Baradin Hold, of course, though he's less "official". No wasted non-kill nights. IMO those bosses are not complicated. But we have a lot of first-time raiders (some of our dps) who tend to tunnel vision, unfortunately.

Is anyone else convinced that Blizz's official spelling of "Omnotron" is a typo? I refuse to spell it that way.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:59 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:
That's part of the reason for the price. The herbs are more time consuming to farm in my experience.

But flasks and food are not optional. In progression raiding, a flask/food buff missing is the difference between a 1-5% wipe and a kill. You don't start in epic gear; and that's fine because you can't help it, but everyone suffers that handicap. Consumables are not an equal handicap, as there are people that come filthy rich off their mains in WotLK, and then there are new mains and newcomers in other servers who simply can't afford 300g flasks (minimum 4 hours is 1200g), a 200g stack of food, and about 150g worth of potions per raid night when the dailies at best provide 300-400g. Not everyone has multiple alts with gathering profs to supply their main with two crafting professions.

People are already putting 4 hours into raiding, do you really need to squeeze 2 hours of farming out of them as well?


I personally find the time requirement to be much lower than ever before. I can also say that I started this expansion with 200g, I have 2 crafting professions and no alts, and I have no issue paying for all my consumables and enchants with only an hour or two farming a week, and the only dailies I do are the JC daily and a random heroic for valor points.

As for the price of flasks, as I said, in the next patch the requirements are being lowered from 24 herbs + 6 volatiles to 16 herbs + 8 volatiles. In addition, the demand will decrease as more and more guilds get cauldrons, which will also decrease the price. The number of people buying darkmoon cards will go down as well, so we should be seeing herbs drop pretty heavily in price. I'd wager that flasks will be closer to 150g within a month.

meatyochre wrote:I don't think 10k is too little gold for myself, seeing as how I'm an alchemist/tailor/fisherwoman and my alt is an herb/miner. I farm all of my own raiding mats (and my guild only raids one day a week anyway, plus double flask durations) so I don't have any ongoing drains on my gold with the exception of repairs. I go through 2-3 flasks a week, just a few mana potions (I get good mileage from mana tide + arcane torrent + shadowfiend + hymn of hope), and less than one full stack of buff food. And I also provide the feasts for our guild's cooking slackers.

For a one night a week guild, though, I feel we're doing well. We've raided two days so far (raid day is Saturday and we couldn't raid during the holidays) and have killed Halfus, Magmaw, Omnitron, and Magmaw again--all on 25. Plus Baradin Hold, of course, though he's less "official". No wasted non-kill nights. IMO those bosses are not complicated. But we have a lot of first-time raiders (some of our dps) who tend to tunnel vision, unfortunately.

Is anyone else convinced that Blizz's official spelling of "Omnotron" is a typo? I refuse to spell it that way.


I never have much gold, I farm what I need for the next week, and can do it relatively quickly, but I don't see much value in having tons of gold just sitting around. I imagine my gold will start to skyrocket now that I've finished both professions to 525 and bought all the recipes, guild has cauldrons and will have fish feasts soon, but I'll also just farm a lot less.

Speaking of Mana Tide, I'm sad that in the next patch it will ignore procs, I get insane mana back during Tide right now by popping my Core of Ripeness and my Jeweled Serpent, but really, that's kind of broken. And rejuv is getting cheaper so that may well make up the difference anyway.

After 2 weeks of raiding we're 8/12 with just Chimaeron left of the non-end bosses. Council was... aggrevating to say the least, but aggrevating in the same way LDW was. Any fight where one person not reacting can wipe the raid is bound to be that way.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

I'm thinking of buying one of the epic JC recipes to sell. Any suggestions for which seems to go fastest? I hate how the AH has a 48hr time limit; I can't tell if there's nothing up because people buy them really rapidly, or because no one bothers selling them. The lack of market data is maddening.

I also hate that price are set so arbitrarily; if Chimera's Eyes are 200g on the AH, Elementium Bars are 8g, Volatile Lifes are 15g, and the second tier gems are ~50g a pop, than the cost of the epic recipes should be approx. 800+32+1125+200 = 2157g, so figure, 2.5k to be reasonable. Ok, fine, lets assume that JC daily tokens are worth 200g, because Chimera's Eyes are about 200g a pop, and the recipe cost 5 tokens, ergo, recipe costs 1k...

Most of them are on the AH for anywhere between 6-8kg. Not to say that I blame people for hitting a markup, even a steep markup, but comon, more than 2x? That's absurd. If there's even a iota of market movement for these recipes, I'm spamming the shit out of them.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:49 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I also hate that price are set so arbitrarily; if Chimera's Eyes are 200g on the AH, Elementium Bars are 8g, Volatile Lifes are 15g, and the second tier gems are ~50g a pop, than the cost of the epic recipes should be approx. 800+32+1125+200 = 2157g, so figure, 2.5k to be reasonable.

What calculation are you doing here?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:16 pm UTC

Epic JC recipes. Here;
http://wow.crafterstome.com/recipes/jewelcrafting.html

They take 4x Chimera's Eyes, 4x Elementium bars, 4x some second tier gem, and 75x Volatiles. Admittedly the cost of Volatiles is a bit varied on my server, between 13 and 25g.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Epic JC recipes. Here;
http://wow.crafterstome.com/recipes/jewelcrafting.html

They take 4x Chimera's Eyes, 4x Elementium bars, 4x some second tier gem, and 75x Volatiles. Admittedly the cost of Volatiles is a bit varied on my server, between 13 and 25g.


Ah, right. But they make blue quality items, that's where I was confused. I'd be cautious buying those, the demand for them can't be very big. I prefer to spend my tokens on meta cuts which I think will keep a healthy markup for some time. But then, the reason for the huge markup on the rings/necks is exactly that most JCs are staying away from them.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:I'd be cautious buying those, the demand for them can't be very big.


Um no, they sell for a fuckton of gold.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
mike-l wrote:I'd be cautious buying those, the demand for them can't be very big.


Um no, they sell for a fuckton of gold.


Yeah, but how many actually sell. I can make 3k profit on one of them, but if I can only sell one in the time I can sell 10 metas at 300g profit, then I'll sooner save myself the token, especially as metas will be useful all xpac while blue rings won't be. Worse, I could sink 3k into making one and not be able to sell it at all. Whereas I only ever buy 600-900 in metas and just replenish as the ones I've cut get sold.

Also note that every class except plate tanks can get 2 rings and a neck from rep.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:10 pm UTC

Trouble with the JC recipes is their value fluctuates wildly depending on who floods the market with them. I've seen Quick Amberjewel's sold for anywhere between 20g (seriously) and 75g, whereas I've never seen the rings, necks, and trinkets sold for anything less than 6k.

I think ultimately is has to do with being intimidated by AH offers. Everyone can use the +haste gems, so everyone has the recipe, and thus, their value is simply "Oh god i need to sell this no matter how little I'll get!". Why someone would ever sell a cut below the value of the gem is beyond me, but people do, and now, you can't sell Quick Amberjewel's.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Trouble with the JC recipes is their value fluctuates wildly depending on who floods the market with them. I've seen Quick Amberjewel's sold for anywhere between 20g (seriously) and 75g, whereas I've never seen the rings, necks, and trinkets sold for anything less than 6k.

I think ultimately is has to do with being intimidated by AH offers. Everyone can use the +haste gems, so everyone has the recipe, and thus, their value is simply "Oh god i need to sell this no matter how little I'll get!". Why someone would ever sell a cut below the value of the gem is beyond me, but people do, and now, you can't sell Quick Amberjewel's.


It's generally from people leveling their tradeskills. They wanted the points, they're just trying to recover a bit of gold. Buy them and relist at 75 IMO.

The other day someone posted 10 metas below the cost of the raw gem. Sadly I was tapped at the time, having just bought a weeks worth of consumables, but I told my guildmate and he bought them all and relisted for almost double the cost. 6 sold in the first posting, so he basically got 4 free metas.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:23 pm UTC

I'm up to 14.7k gold now. Climbing surely!

I find that wowhead's estimated buyout price is a good rule of thumb. This feature wasn't helpful when cata was fresh, of course, but now there are established prices for almost everything. If you can't sell something for what wowhead says it's worth, check the comments for a reason the price might waffle and/or try waiting a day or two to post the auction in question. Truegold prices tend to dip right after midnight (server time), but it sells better in the mid-afternoon because the time the cooldown becomes available is universal across the server. And of course a lot of things are cheaper on weekends, when more people are playing the game and undercutting auctions.

I think a really good way to pop a huge sum of gold all at once would be to buy the boe valor point boots for someone. Not from a main (since you probably need valor points for your own gear asap, unless you play casually), but from an alt that you do daily heroics on. I haven't done this yet, since my mage is just barely heroic geared and I don't want to drag down groups. But those boots are going for about 20k, depending on the buyer (this is one instance where wowhead has no cost estimates listed, probably because boots being sold this way are in private pre-arranged transactions, and not being posted on the AH).
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:33 pm UTC

I wouldn't ever recommend the buy/re-list method for easily craftable/farmable items. I make my fortune by deeply undercutting the competition, which drives some away, and gets more people buying as they want to get them "while they're cheap." For odd things, like enchants/gems/glyphs (doesn't work so well with flasks/pots), when I see a large number of mine go at once, I'll go find out why. Many times I've seen someone get angry at my prices, buy them all up, and relist. This is the perfect time for me to once again craft some more and list them. Many an angry whisper/mail I've received.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:38 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:I wouldn't ever recommend the buy/re-list method for easily craftable/farmable items. I make my fortune by deeply undercutting the competition, which drives some away, and gets more people buying as they want to get them "while they're cheap." For odd things, like enchants/gems/glyphs (doesn't work so well with flasks/pots), when I see a large number of mine go at once, I'll go find out why. Many times I've seen someone get angry at my prices, buy them all up, and relist. This is the perfect time for me to once again craft some more and list them. Many an angry whisper/mail I've received.


As long as there is high enough demand, I don't care if you undercut me. I'm making most of my money right now on the volatile market, and I've never had any thing not sell within 12 hours, and I always post at higher than minimum prices.

In the case we were talking about, people were selling for less than the cost of mats. I'm pretty sure you aren't making your fortune by selling at a loss. These are goods that are on the AH because people made them to level and and are stuck with them.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:40 pm UTC

Ah yeah, less than mat costs changes everything. I just leveled engineering, and went through a ton of those. You think they could actually give them something remotely useful to sell.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:44 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:Also note that every class except plate tanks can get 2 rings and a neck from rep.


Ah my bad, my experiences were with blacksmithing - didn't consider the fact that other professions had to contend with rep rewards :/.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:24 pm UTC

Oh you're right... The faction rings/necks totally trump the epic JC pieces. Well shit. Maybe I should stick to cuts.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:36 pm UTC

You're gonna want to get your hands on the new cut recipes coming on the next patch, as it's giving a main stat+3% crit damage bonus, making it the BiS metagem that everyone will be switching to.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:32 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:You're gonna want to get your hands on the new cut recipes coming on the next patch, as it's giving a main stat+3% crit damage bonus, making it the BiS metagem that everyone will be switching to.


Oooh, good call, I'll start saving my tokens.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:09 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
Lucrece wrote:You're gonna want to get your hands on the new cut recipes coming on the next patch, as it's giving a main stat+3% crit damage bonus, making it the BiS metagem that everyone will be switching to.


Oooh, good call, I'll start saving my tokens.

Right now on the PTR they're random world drops so tokens don't mean anything. BoE though so expect the patterns to be mega expensive.

Also, I wasn't aware people had so many gold problems. I feel almost guilty as I vary between 20k and 80k gold at any given week and I'm one of the average in my guild. One of our rogues lost 150k when he transferred because it wouldn't let him move it all and it didn't bother him because he still had a ton left.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

I wouldn't call it 'gold problems'. As noted, if you've got a few thousand, you can get everything you need. You just don't have a lot in the 'luxury spending' category, and you always have to make sure you're always getting a bit of income somewhere. It's a problem when you encounter the people saying "Can I borrow 100g? I don't have any to repair with."
Vyn wrote: One of our rogues lost 150k when he transferred because it wouldn't let him move it all and it didn't bother him because he still had a ton left.
That's when you stock your bags full of AH'able crap with your extra funds. Sell it on the new server, get your fortune back.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:21 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:
But flasks and food are not optional. In progression raiding, a flask/food buff missing is the difference between a 1-5% wipe and a kill. You don't start in epic gear; and that's fine because you can't help it, but everyone suffers that handicap. Consumables are not an equal handicap, as there are people that come filthy rich off their mains in WotLK, and then there are new mains and newcomers in other servers who simply can't afford 300g flasks (minimum 4 hours is 1200g), a 200g stack of food, and about 150g worth of potions per raid night when the dailies at best provide 300-400g. Not everyone has multiple alts with gathering profs to supply their main with two crafting professions.

People are already putting 4 hours into raiding, do you really need to squeeze 2 hours of farming out of them as well?


I dunno how solid that argument is, cause my average itemlevel is way higher than the average itemlevel of anyone in the top 1001000 guilds when they were downing bosses, and I have only downed 2. Counting Argaloth.
I probably have better stats than those people, is what I'm saying, and they've downed more bosses with less gear. Skill, personal and guild-wide, matters.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:18 am UTC

I'm debating now whether I should buy the valor boots or just wait until I get the points naturally. But that will take several weeks, and if I buy the boots then I can spend my own points on something else and gear up that much more quickly. hrmmm...

They are absolutely best in slot out of any current raid content. But 17k+ is a lot of gold (my current life savings, lol)
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:09 pm UTC

Don't. You can easily get the cap weekly. Don't blow the gold on it.


Midnight wrote:
Lucrece wrote:
But flasks and food are not optional. In progression raiding, a flask/food buff missing is the difference between a 1-5% wipe and a kill. You don't start in epic gear; and that's fine because you can't help it, but everyone suffers that handicap. Consumables are not an equal handicap, as there are people that come filthy rich off their mains in WotLK, and then there are new mains and newcomers in other servers who simply can't afford 300g flasks (minimum 4 hours is 1200g), a 200g stack of food, and about 150g worth of potions per raid night when the dailies at best provide 300-400g. Not everyone has multiple alts with gathering profs to supply their main with two crafting professions.

People are already putting 4 hours into raiding, do you really need to squeeze 2 hours of farming out of them as well?


I dunno how solid that argument is, cause my average itemlevel is way higher than the average itemlevel of anyone in the top 1001000 guilds when they were downing bosses, and I have only downed 2. Counting Argaloth.
I probably have better stats than those people, is what I'm saying, and they've downed more bosses with less gear. Skill, personal and guild-wide, matters.



Yeah, but you're not those guilds. You work with what's available to you. And the fact is that, unlike gear which you're BARRED from obtaining thanks to valor points/drop chance+raid bids, consumables are available to you.

It'd be like having enough valor points to make a purchase of an item that would optimize your performance, but choosing not to. You'd be suboptimal in your performance.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Don't. You can easily get the cap weekly. Don't blow the gold on it.


You need to kill 9 25 man or 11 10 man bosses in addition to doing a heroic every day to cap. I wouldn't classify that as 'easily' as over 80% of raiding guilds aren't there yet, and assuming there hasn't been a crazy reduction in the number of guilds since WotLK, only about 30% of guilds are actually raiding right now. (Perhaps some guilds not on wowprogess are raiding, but I'd be willing to bet that the number of 10/12+ guilds that haven't added themselves to wowprogress is pretty minimal)

But I agree, even doing just BH and heroic dailies you'll get there in 3 weeks, don't waste the gold. You'll probably be VP capped with nothing to buy before the next content patch anyway.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:24 am UTC

Yeah, I keep thinking in 25-man mindset, when I should remember most guilds made the switch to 10-man.
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