MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

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MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby The Reaper » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:47 am UTC

http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/artif ... mristors/0
Excerpt:
So why should you believe us when we say we finally have the technology that will lead to a true artificial intelligence? Because of MoNETA, the brain on a chip. MoNETA (Modular Neural Exploring Traveling Agent) is the software we're designing at Boston University's department of cognitive and neural systems, which will run on a brain-inspired microprocessor under development at HP Labs in California. It will function according to the principles that distinguish us mammals most profoundly from our fast but witless machines. MoNETA (the goddess of memory—cute, huh?) will do things no computer ever has. It will perceive its surroundings, decide which information is useful, integrate that information into the emerging structure of its reality, and in some applications, formulate plans that will ensure its survival. In other words, MoNETA will be motivated by the same drives that motivate cockroaches, cats, and humans.
Its a bit lengthy.

IMO: DARPA does such neat things. They need more money.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby EmptySet » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:29 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:MoNETA (the goddess of memory—cute, huh?) will do things no computer ever has. It will perceive its surroundings, decide which information is useful, integrate that information into the emerging structure of its reality, and in some applications, formulate plans that will ensure its survival.


I don't see how any of those things are things which no computer has ever done. At the very least, loads of computers can perceive their surroundings and evaluate whether data is useful or not before acting on it, and there are things like the various robots we send to Mars, which are programmed to prolong their own lifetime by managing their systems based on local conditions. Heck, the AI in a lot of video games does all those things, at least within the bounds of its virtual reality.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:01 am UTC

Ugh, forced acronyms. We hates them.

EmptySet wrote:
The Reaper wrote:MoNETA (the goddess of memory—cute, huh?) will do things no computer ever has. It will perceive its surroundings, decide which information is useful, integrate that information into the emerging structure of its reality, and in some applications, formulate plans that will ensure its survival.


I don't see how any of those things are things which no computer has ever done. At the very least, loads of computers can perceive their surroundings and evaluate whether data is useful or not before acting on it, and there are things like the various robots we send to Mars, which are programmed to prolong their own lifetime by managing their systems based on local conditions. Heck, the AI in a lot of video games does all those things, at least within the bounds of its virtual reality.


It sounds to me that the main difference here is that memory storage and processing are done in the same place, as opposed to traditional architectures where memory and processing are separate, connected via an interface. Apparently this mimics more closely how actual neurons work. I'm not convinced this will necessarily lead to AI as the article suggests, but it's certainly a fun concept, and could certainly result in more powerful computers where processing and memory are integrated.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:53 am UTC

Let me guess, actual success is about fifteen to thirty years away?

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Technical Ben » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:22 pm UTC

I do recall all the claims about the "emotion engine" chip. That was put in the Playstation 2. The Playstation 2! That thing had no where near the power they were promising with their descriptions of the breakthrough in tech. Then we had the cell chip. This does do some amazing things. It's practically a 6 core chip (AFAIK) that was being put in a console, when pcs barely had Hyper Threading single cores. But even that does not meet the promises/speculation of it's predecessor.

So am I sceptical on that write up? Well, it's memory on a chip. Whoopdee do. Faster, better. But not omnipotent, or even "intelligent".
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Telchar » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:55 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:It sounds to me that the main difference here is that memory storage and processing are done in the same place, as opposed to traditional architectures where memory and processing are separate, connected via an interface. Apparently this mimics more closely how actual neurons work. I'm not convinced this will necessarily lead to AI as the article suggests, but it's certainly a fun concept, and could certainly result in more powerful computers where processing and memory are integrated.


I know very little about the computer architecture but the brain doesn't proccess memory and store memory in the same place. I can see the advantages but I don't think it's mimicking the brain much better.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby The Reaper » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:05 pm UTC

Ah, the IEEE Spectrum page didn't have the youtube video. one moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rilgDC0Vujw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DE7xdFaaVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbkhep-QzVo
Sorry bout that. The videos go a bit more into the actual work being conducted.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:16 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:It sounds to me that the main difference here is that memory storage and processing are done in the same place, as opposed to traditional architectures where memory and processing are separate, connected via an interface. Apparently this mimics more closely how actual neurons work. I'm not convinced this will necessarily lead to AI as the article suggests, but it's certainly a fun concept, and could certainly result in more powerful computers where processing and memory are integrated.


I know very little about the computer architecture but the brain doesn't proccess memory and store memory in the same place. I can see the advantages but I don't think it's mimicking the brain much better.


Not memory memory, I mean like data that's currently being processed. It has to be stored somewhere while being processed, and that's not in the main "memory lobe" of the brain.

At least I think that's how it works. I'm a rocket scientist, not a brain surgeon.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Telchar » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:36 pm UTC

That makes more sense and explains the comparison. In that sense information in the brain doesn't really go anywhere while it's proccessing in the same way RAM is utilized. Synthesizing data is trasfered directly into different loci and processed in parallel extensively before being sent on but never really gets stored anywhere per se.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Wnderer » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

It's a neural network. The concept is not new. Memristors allows them to move the technology from like vacuum tube UNIVAC's to Integrated Circuits. The main advantage and problem is they work like brains. You can't program them or download information into them. You have to train them or teach them. So they create an artificial intelligence but you have to raise it like a child.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby nitePhyyre » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:04 pm UTC

Ya, memristors are going to be as big an advance over transistors as transistors were over steam powered computers.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Dark567 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:39 pm UTC

Wnderer wrote:It's a neural network. The concept is not new. Memristors allows them to move the technology from like vacuum tube UNIVAC's to Integrated Circuits. The main advantage and problem is they work like brains. You can't program them or download information into them. You have to train them or teach them. So they create an artificial intelligence but you have to raise it like a child.

Yeah, this article describes how the memristor will allow us to process and store data in the same place, but the software running is still going to be a neural network. I remain unconvinced that neural networks alone will give rise to intelligence. Humans(and other animals) have built in schemas(i.e. universal grammar) that allow us to recognize patterns and understand information. In order to get anywhere close to strong intelligence we would have to know how to set up the neural network with some useful basic schemas. The hardest part of figuring out artificial intelligence is figuring out the software, and the only decent reference we have is our own intelligence, which we have very little knowledge of how that works.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Wnderer » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:46 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:Ya, memristors are going to be as big an advance over transistors as transistors were over steam powered computers.


For neural networks. Yes. Think about it. If you wanted to model one memristor digitally to 8 bits, you would need eight bit inputs for the voltage and current, an eight bit register to store the resistance and the logic and math circuits to generate the output. That's a whole bunch of transistors. If you want to do it analog, you could use a FET to be the resistance output but you needs circuits to measure the voltage and current and probably a capacitor to the hold that information. A memristor is a great analog for a neuron with the resistance representing the strength of the connection and the voltage and currents representing the signals which are both controlled by the strength and change the strength. Memristors create the opportunity to do large scale integration of neural networks.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Wnderer » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:03 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
Wnderer wrote:It's a neural network. The concept is not new. Memristors allows them to move the technology from like vacuum tube UNIVAC's to Integrated Circuits. The main advantage and problem is they work like brains. You can't program them or download information into them. You have to train them or teach them. So they create an artificial intelligence but you have to raise it like a child.

Yeah, this article describes how the memristor will allow us to process and store data in the same place, but the software running is still going to be a neural network. I remain unconvinced that neural networks alone will give rise to intelligence. Humans(and other animals) have built in schemas(i.e. universal grammar) that allow us to recognize patterns and understand information. In order to get anywhere close to strong intelligence we would have to know how to set up the neural network with some useful basic schemas. The hardest part of figuring out artificial intelligence is figuring out the software, and the only decent reference we have is our own intelligence, which we have very little knowledge of how that works.

Interesting. I wonder if these schemas are designed into the architecture of the brain or trained in during the growth process in the womb.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby morriswalters » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

According to this these guys,they may need a lot of memristors.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Telchar » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:39 pm UTC

The ability to create grammar structures is innate but they creation of the structures is done in infancy by hearing native speakers. It's the biggest reason why learning a language is much easier when you are young.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby nitePhyyre » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:07 am UTC

Wnderer wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:Ya, memristors are going to be as big an advance over transistors as transistors were over steam powered computers.


For neural networks. Yes. Think about it. If you wanted to model one memristor digitally to 8 bits, you would need eight bit inputs for the voltage and current, an eight bit register to store the resistance and the logic and math circuits to generate the output. That's a whole bunch of transistors. If you want to do it analog, you could use a FET to be the resistance output but you needs circuits to measure the voltage and current and probably a capacitor to the hold that information. A memristor is a great analog for a neuron with the resistance representing the strength of the connection and the voltage and currents representing the signals which are both controlled by the strength and change the strength. Memristors create the opportunity to do large scale integration of neural networks.

For more than just neural networks. The article mentions storage densities of a petabyte per cm2. And the power savings of it being non-volatile main memory. Pure awesome. I remember an interview with one of the members of the team who had discovered them. He basically said that the entire field of hardware up until this point was little more than a hodge podge attempt to mimic how these work. On the other hand, memristors were only discovered 2 years ago. They could be it could be as much hype as the golden age of nuclear power.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Saurus33 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:35 am UTC

Entirely possible yet constrained by red tape and ignorance of the technology?

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:48 pm UTC

No, the ideas of the golden age of nuclear power were things like a car that doesn't need refuelling because it has a reactor in it, nuclear-powered aircraft and things like that.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby The Reaper » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:17 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:No, the ideas of the golden age of nuclear power were things like a car that doesn't need refuelling because it has a reactor in it, nuclear-powered aircraft and things like that.

I see nothing wrong with this future<3

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Zamfir » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:No, the ideas of the golden age of nuclear power were things like a car that doesn't need refuelling because it has a reactor in it, nuclear-powered aircraft and things like that.

I see nothing wrong with this future<3

But it was supposed to our past by now.

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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:52 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:steam powered computers.


Would buy.
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Re: MoNETA: A Mind Made from Memristors

Postby Zamfir » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:59 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:steam powered computers.


Would buy.

You might like this: pneumatic logic gates, based on little channels and membrane valves
http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/LC/b9/b904354c/b904354c.pdf

I have once seen another design that functioned like an old vacuum tube: a little jet of air was aimed to the middle of two holes, and by applying under or over pressure on side of the valve, the jet would flow into one of the two holes. Where it produces overpressure in another air-tube.


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